I join Members in supporting the suggestion that we have a debate with the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs on the statement that came out yesterday. It is shocking and appalling. I add a request to the Leader that the Minister for Justice and Equality attend to speak to us on the issue. It has been pigeonholed as something for the Department of Children and Youth Affairs when, in fact, it is a deep and wide issue of justice and equality in the State. It is and should be a matter of extreme concern to us if our Government says it is not possible to implement recommendations to deliver justice, equality and redress.

It is shameful that we have had statements saying there have been no findings to date regarding abuse or neglect. Indeed, the Tánaiste, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, stated to the UN that there had been no findings in respect of the Magdalen laundries when we are finding the bodies of children in the ground and we see the evidence, stories and testimony of people who endlessly and bravely come forward to talk about the experiences they have had. Despite obstruction and the obfuscation and removal of records, every examination finds consistent clear arrows towards abuse and neglect. Let us move past the point where we say there are no findings and say that there was abuse and neglect albeit the depth and extent of that abuse and neglect will take work to dig through.

In respect of Senator Mullen's contribution, the Comptroller and Auditor General spoke about the failure of religious institutions to contribute. That is a huge issue. There is a concern that if the State signals that it will not open these redress schemes and reopens negotiations on the contribution religious institutions need to make, including in relation to properties if necessary, they will understand that they do not need to worry either. Let us have no more complicity. Let us have a debate not on whether but on how we address these issues and deliver redress and justice to women and not only the children who have been affected by this.

I thank the Senator.

A last point-----

I ask the Senator to hold on.

This is related. It will take one second.

The Senator will accede to the Chair. Members come in here thinking they are all leaders and can have three minutes. I allowed whichever leader was chosen three minutes and the Senator has already had three minutes and wants to bring up another point.

It is the same point. I will conclude.

I also point out that every other person bar a leader can raise only one issue on the Order of Business.

This is the same issue and I will finish.

The Senator is over her time. I give her two seconds to finish up.

Ireland hopes to chair the UN Commission on the Status of Women and to stand before the world as a leader on the rights of women. How can we do that credibly next March if we have this failure to redress the abuse of older women hanging over us? I ask the Leader how we can credibly take that role on.