I have no problem with the Leader but the Minister of State has treated us with utter contempt for months. He showed me utter contempt in the canteen this morning. I need to meet him today or first thing in the morning with Senator Craughwell.

The Senator has made his point. The Leader to continue.

If we can have that assurance now, we will not divide the House.

I will revert to the Senator before the close of business today.

I want an assurance now.

I cannot give the Senator an answer because I have to go back and talk-----

I propose that proceedings be suspended for five minutes-----

No, I am not going to do that.

------to give the Minister of State an opportunity to say when he can meet us-----

Senator Mac Lochlainn-----

-----and clarify the situation.

The Senator has a choice. Sometimes there are difficult decisions to make. If the Senator is unhappy with the Leader's response on behalf of the Government, he can call a vote.

That is fair enough.

It is a matter for the Senator.

I will endeavour to have the meeting with the Minister of State either this evening or tomorrow. I know he is not available this afternoon. I may not be here tomorrow for that meeting - I would like to be - which is why I am not negotiating with Senator Mac Lochlainn. He is not Leader of the House yet. Some day, he may be. There is a way of doing business and Senator Mac Lochlainn should not be doing business in the House in the manner in which he is. He will not bully me. I am prepared to have-----

For how many months have I been raising this issue? How many times have I raised it? What does it take to meet a Minister of State for 15 minutes-----

Senator Mac Lochlainn-----

-----just to clarify what he is going to do? How more fair could I be?

Senator Mac Lochlainn should resume his seat.

How many times have I said to the Leader that I would withhold the relevant motion, which has been------

Senator Mac Lochlainn should resume his seat and respect the Chair.

-----agreed by the majority of Members of this House? I have acted in good faith but I have been treated with utter contempt. I should not be told that I am bullying anybody. I have been treated with utter contempt, as has Senator Craughwell.

The Leader to reply.

I cannot-----

What has happened this morning is absolutely disgraceful.

We should move on if the Senator cannot accept the assurance-----

The Leader has acted in good faith but the Minister of State has treated us with utter contempt.

Senator Mac Lochlainn has made his point very strongly.

After the Order of Business, I will endeavour to go to the Minister of State at the Department of Defence, Deputy Kehoe, to seek a meeting. I cannot answer for him in respect of tomorrow or later today. I cannot say whether he will have room in his diary. I will not be available tomorrow morning because of diary commitments. I will endeavour to organise the meeting for whatever time the Minister of State is available. I will not make a commitment I cannot honour. I have always acted in good faith on this matter, as has Senator McFadden. We have never resiled from wanting unity on the issue. It ill behoves us all to have this type of debate in the Chamber.