I second Senator McDowell's proposed amendment to the Order of Business. There is a massive need for reform. It is a very good thing. It is not change for change's sake but it is progress. We cannot go on in the form we are in.

We might start with our internal reform in the Seanad Chamber since nobody listens to anybody in here. If one looks around, nobody is listening and everybody is using technology. There is not even a display-----

There is not even a display of manners to the Chair most of the time. Most people come in and out of here as if they are standing at a bus stop. People come in here and they do not listen to arguments. They may have plenty of other wonderful things to do but they do not even listen to the arguments. Sometimes they do not even know what they are voting for or against. They also use it as a back office. We can talk all we wish about reform, external reform, changing things for councillors and this, that or the other but we need to start with ourselves. It is disengaged, graceless and bad mannered a lot of the time. That is the first thing I want to say. I agree with reform and think we should start with ourselves. Whatever committee is going to do it, we should start with learning how to act in public and how to listen to one other. We should not be on phones and using the place as a back office when people are talking about very serious issues or issues that mean something to them and their constituents or localities.

I suggest Senator Hopkins should listen to Garry Hynes's lecture on the greatness of Ballaghaderreen and her life there. I suggest the Senator should ring her up and ask what she should do about tourism in the midlands because she will not get an answer from Shane Ross.