I draw the House's attention to the report of the Seanad Public Consultation Committee on children's mental health, which was launched earlier. In particular, I congratulate the members of the committee, including the Leas-Chathaoirleach who served as Chairman, and not least my colleague, Senator Joan Freeman, who was rapporteur of the committee, for all the hard work they put into focusing public attention on the issues raised so concisely and graphically in the report. This is an example of the important work that can be done by parliamentarians across the board on a non-party or cross-party basis to achieve progress on matters which concern minorities that are vulnerable in our society. I wanted to record my gratitude to the committee members for the hard work they put into it and I hope it will receive further consideration from the Government. We have had a number of debates on cognate issues in recent times, both legislative and on foot of motions, but the report should focus our minds on the matters it raises. The interesting aspect is that the basic framework for providing mental health services is still A Vision for Change. I pay tribute to my former Progressive Democrats colleague, Mr. Tim O'Malley, who as Minister of State piloted that programme through and took a fair amount of stick in doing so. He stuck with the project and he has always asked me never to let go of the vision set out in the document.

The report, and Senator Freeman's involvement, also underline the importance of co-operation in this House. Yesterday on the Order of Business, two Senators indicated that the group of which I am a member is not a group of Independents at all. The Chair ruled that this is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and their gripe was not a matter for debate in the House. I fully accept that proposition but every member of the group to which I belong is absolutely free to vote in any direction or not to vote at all on any issue or to state what they believe one way or the other on any issue. They are wholly independent and nobody puts pressure on anybody else to support a particular position. There is no sense in which their independence of mind and their independence as legislators and as spokespersons on various issues is in any way affected by the fact that they are a member of the group. It is false to say they are not real Independents and to say that people who are not members of any group are more independent is equally false. The nub of the question is that to co-operate in this House and not to have a free-for-all where Members jump and down and demand to be heard, there are rules of order and procedure.

The members of the Independent group in this House co-operate solely for the purpose of exercising their rights as Independent Members. For other Members of this House who have been in that group and who have left for reasons that have nothing to do with policy or-----

It should never be about personality.

Order.

-----their independence - I will finish on this point - to say they are more independent than the people in my group is totally wrong.

Senator-----

May I finish? They are less effective because-----

We cannot question other Members' motives.

-----they have refused to co-operate. When they come into this House and say they are the only real Independents here, they are misdescribing the situation. It must be put on the record-----

The Senator knows I cannot allow that. Senator, please.

Since they describe themselves as real Independents, the suggestion being that others are phoney Independents-----

No.

If real independence means-----

No, we cannot comment on people who are absent.

I certainly can.

The Senator knows this better than the Chair.

He has not named anyone just yet.

Senator McDowell has gone past injury time at this stage.

I do not want to get into comment on the fact that they are yet again absent.

That is very unfair.

Order, please.

If real independence-----

As Leader, I say Senator McDowell should withdraw the remark about their not being here.

Senator McDowell is hogging the floor. He is out of order.

If real independence-----

I am surprised at him.

May I finish the sentence, please?

No, you may not.

If real independence-----

Name the person you want-----

Hold on. Order, please.

If real independence-----

The Senator is destroying the nice, kind comments he made to us earlier, which are much appreciated, by the way, about the public consultation committee and the mental health services report, which is so important. I am sure the Leader, in his own time, will arrange a suitable debate with the Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly.

If real independence-----

I am done with independence. I will leave that to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. Senator McDowell has made his point over and over again.

May I finish my sentence before-----

Please, Senator.

If real independence involves helplessness and ineffectuality, let them have it.

I hope they will all vote for Seanad reform.

Over and out.