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Seanad
‹ Order of Business

Seanad reform exchange

Summary

Senator O'Donnell challenged the Leader to say whether he supported Seanad reform, and the Chair repeatedly intervened to keep the exchange orderly. The Leader said the Seanad should lead in its own way, mentioned Brexit and mental health reports, and argued Members should contribute constructively rather than only criticise.

On a point of order, I referenced it and the others chorused in.

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As the Senator knows, I group contributions on a themed approach to the Order of Business.

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My name can go after that of Senator Ó Donnghaile. There is no problem.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

The Leader is very anxious to conclude.

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I am tempted to tell Senator Gavan that is some coalition of names but I had better not as I might get another comment. What the Senator referred to is not necessarily about Seanad reform. It is about the nature of the discourse and the debate we have here. Under the Constitution we do not mirror the Dáil and should not follow the Dáil. We set our own rules and our own criteria within the constitutional parameters we have. Certainly, I very much agree with the Senator. The Seanad had an all-party committee on Brexit, the report of which is not sitting on a shelf.

It is very much part of the approach taken by the Government, the Civil Service, and indeed by all of us. The harmony brought about by that report is very much part of what the Government is doing. On the issue of mental health, the Seanad Public Consultation Committee sat on a cross-party basis and produced an excellent report.

With regard to the health care issue raised by the Senator, our Seanad was deprived a vote and thus a say on the Sláintecare report because Members of this House from certain parties failed to support the representation of Seanadóirí on the relevant committee. We are not meant to follow the Dáil; we set our own agenda. For as long as I have been involved with and interested in politics, the Seanad has always been seen in a different light to the Dáil, be it by the media, by society in general, by Senators themselves or indeed by the Houses of the Oireachtas, and this is something that we have to address and change. Reform very much depends on the viewpoint taken and I would be very interested to listen to any remarks on the subject of Seanad reform. Senator McDowell has published his Bill and there have been different viewpoints on what is contained in it-----

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

Let the record show "laughter".

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I would certainly be happy to have an ongoing debate on Brexit and on the future of the Seanad. It is also important that we come into this Chamber as Members of the House and debate in the fullest way the variety of issues, Bills and statements that come before us, that we initiate Private Members' Bills and that we challenge one another to carry out our business better. I do not have all of the capacity or knowledge and I am happy to work with every Member to make this a better House. In some cases, as the Cathaoirleach knows well, we can only debate what is before us, be it legislation initiated in this House or be it from the Lower House. I certainly cannot manufacture legislation, but the point the Cathaoirleach makes is one that we should all work on and I would be very happy to have him play a key role in that.

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On a point of order, I know what our raison d'être is. I was just suggesting that we are not leading on this matter. I did not suggest that we should copy the Dáil. We are not leading.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Senator, please. That is not a point of order.

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Is the Leader suggesting that the Seanad does not need reform?

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I did not say that.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Allow the Leader to respond.

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What can the Leader tell me then? What will he do to help bring this about?

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Through the Chair, Senator.

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A Chathaoirligh, can I ask the Leader what he is prepared to do to bring this reform about?

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I cannot allow Senators who have already spoken to come in to make a second contribution. Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell is welcome to seek clarification on this again tomorrow morning and I will allow her in then. If everybody came back in at this point the whole meeting would disintegrate.

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I thought that we had changed the Order of Business to a question and answer session so I thank the Cathaoirleach for his intervention. I would say to Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell that I feel that we led on Brexit, particularly with regard to the committee report that came from this House. We are also leading on mental health - I see that Senator Freeman has just walked in - and that particular report was an extraordinary piece of work that challenged many different aspects of the health system-----

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It also gave parents an opportunity to participate in an active and meaningful way. The Seanad Public Consultation Committee is one way in which we can lead. If Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell has further suggestions on how we can lead then I would be very happy to listen and to take them on board. To be fair, I am not referring to Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell at all when I say this but I do feel that rather than coming in here to criticise, condemn and pour scorn, there is a duty on all Members of the House to-----

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I did not mean Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell at all here.

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The Leader should not use such language, then.

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A Chathaoirligh, I hope that Dr. Swanick and Dr. Reilly are back in the House presently because they might be able to produce a prescription for happy pills.

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