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Seanad
‹ Order of Business

McCabe, whistleblowers and health replies

Summary

The Leader responded at length on the McCabe controversy, insisting the aim is to get the truth and protect whistleblowers. The exchange then turned into a heated back-and-forth on health waiting lists, consultant shortages, the Taoiseach's past role, and whether the Government is delivering enough for public patients.

I thank the 22 Members of the House who have participated in the Order of Business this morning.

Senators Mark Daly, Craughwell and Humphreys raised the issue of the Department of Justice and Equality and Sergeant Maurice McCabe. As I made clear, this side of the House has one interest only, which is to get to the truth, establish all the facts and to provide justice to the McCabe family.

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Tell that to the Tánaiste.

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It is okay, Senator. The Tánaiste is aware of the situation and it ill-behoves all of us to use it as a political football with that kind of remark.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Senators should not interrupt. The Leader was kind enough to facilitate the debate for an hour this evening at short notice. Those who wish to contribute should be present and listen to what the Tánaiste has to say. Whether questions are allowed or not is a matter for the Leader.

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I agree with Senator Daly that we all have a duty to protect and support whistleblowers in every sphere and, as Senator Craughwell mentioned about the ongoing case, we should protect, support and encourage whistleblowers. That is why we have new legislation.

The Cathaoirleach mentioned that we will have statements later. None of us wants or supports an adversarial approach by whoever is behind the strategy of An Garda Síochána. The tribunal will establish the facts and the truth. From my perspective, there should be and can be no witch hunt. The only objective can be for the whole truth to be found and put on public record. That is why we have a commission.

As I have said before in this House, there is a need for cultural change in An Garda Síochána. That can only come from within primarily, or be led from within. There is no conspiracy at all, Senator Clifford-Lee. Everybody wants justice for Mr. McCabe and his family. All of us who think and speak about this should reflect on how we feel and the ongoing nightmare and trauma that they have to endure. They deserve support from all of us.

The Tánaiste has said that she had no hand or part in any legal strategy pursued by the former Garda Commissioner. The Taoiseach spoke to Mr. McCabe last night and put on record again that Mr. McCabe is one of the bravest people he has met in public life, who has been wronged by the State on a number of occasions because of his bravery and willingness to shine a light into a dark place. The Taoiseach, the Head of the Government, made those remarks.

Senators Gavan, Humphreys, Noone, Feighan, Murnane O'Connor and Conway-Walsh raised the issue of HSE contracts and compliance. The Minister for Health has commissioned an independent group chaired by Donal de Buitléir to examine the impact on the public hospital system. We all want to see accountability and compliance. I challenge some on the far left who criticise the amount of money being spent on our health system without recognising or acknowledging that the Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, has secured the biggest budget for the health system ever. I challenge Members from the Sinn Féin Party in particular to come in with their proposals. I have not heard any suggestion or proposal from them on anything.

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We do that frequently.

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I have not heard one-----

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Does Senator Buttimer want us to read our policy document? This is ridiculous.

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I have not heard one proposal from Sinn Féin.

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Will Senator Buttimer change home help hours from minutes to hours? There is a proposal.

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Senator Conway-Walsh should look at Sinn Féin's performance in the North of our country in government and the way it has treated the health system there.

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Senator Buttimer is hearing that. We do this every day.

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Senator Buttimer read the pre-budget submission.

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It is the reality.

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Did he mislead the House? He told us he read our pre-budget submission.

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I did not mislead the House at all.

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Senator Buttimer said he read the pre-budget submission. There were plenty of suggestions there.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Allow the Leader to respond.

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The Minister is committed-----

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The Leader is misleading the House.

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The question I asked was-----

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The Minister is committed to improving access for public health patients-----

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-----if the Taoiseach would answer the question about the data.

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-----in hospital care.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I ask the Leader to hold on a second. If there is an issue which the Senator is not satisfied about she can raise it again tomorrow but I cannot allow Senators who have spoken, some for two and three minutes, to cut across.

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I just want the Leader to answer the question.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

If the Senator is not happy with what the Leader is saying, she can challenge it tomorrow morning.

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If one was to listen to the Sinn Féin Party-----

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Here we go again.

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The Leader never answers a question. I asked him why the Taoiseach stopped the data being-----

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

Does the Cathaoirleach find these constant interruptions as boring as I do?

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Senator Norris should stop interrupting then.

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If the Leader answered the question, we would not interrupt.

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The line of thought followed by Sinn Féin would drive consultants out of the country. We want to have them here, to pay them properly and to have them work in a proper health system in which they can deliver for their patients. Senator Conway-Walsh has no proposal-----

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There are 600,000 people on the waiting list.

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Fair play to the Leader.

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Let us look at the example. First of all, none of us wants to see people waiting on a hospital waiting list for any procedure.

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The Leader should do something about it.

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The number of people on the waiting list for cataract treatment for more than 15 months has been reduced from 1,694 to 421. There has been a 16% reduction in the public waiting list.

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Wow. That is fantastic. I will tell that to the 600,000 people who are waiting.

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Perhaps the Senator can tell it to her head office and have the speech changed for tomorrow.

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Yes, that is what I will do.

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That National Treatment Purchase Fund-----

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The Leader might tell that to the hundreds of children who are waiting for physiotherapy.

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The National Treatment Purchase Fund has offered treatment plans to 3,103 patients and half of those people have accepted them. The Minister and the Government are committed to reducing waiting times and to improving access. We all want to see compliance put in place. That is what the Government will do, and is doing, through the HSE.

Senators Craughwell and Devine referenced the issue of freedom of speech on social media. I hope that we can find unanimity and unity in trying to combat that growing issue. As Senator Devine said, it is affecting young people more and more and they may not necessarily have the coping skills or the mechanisms to deal with it. Our former colleague, Lorraine Higgins, had a Bill in this regard. It is important that we see how we can work to combat that issue. I would be very happy to work with the Senators on that.

I join with Senator Gavan in condemning the racism shown to Cyrus Christie. It has no place in Irish sport or in sport generally. In respect of the request for questions and answers, I remind Members that under Article 28.4.1° of the Constitution, the Government is responsible to the Dáil only. In this House we have statements. The precedent has always been to have statements in this House. To go back to the comments of Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell about mirroring, apeing or following the Dáil-----

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