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Seanad
‹ Order of Business

Health service overcrowding

Summary

The Leader responded to repeated criticism of trolley numbers from Senators Ardagh, Conway-Walsh and Ó Ríordáin, insisting that the figures were improving and pointing to extra funding, recruitment, primary care investment, diagnostics and home care packages. A running exchange followed, with Senator Conway-Walsh disputing the Government's claims, the Cathaoirleach urging order, and the Leader repeatedly defending the record and inviting the Minister back for a debate.

I thank the 15 Senators who contributed on the Order of Business. The issue of health was raised by Senators Ardagh, Conway-Walsh and Ó Ríordáin. I will begin by saying that the trolley figures show a decrease of 509 in comparison to this time last year. In November, 1,864 fewer patients were on trolleys and year on year, 2,373 fewer patients were on trolleys. Notwithstanding the positivity of those figures, we all acknowledge that there should be no patients on trolleys in any of our hospitals. That is why the Minister for Health worked to secure an increase in the health budget and additional investment in our health service is happening. Sometimes Senator Conway-Walsh should leave her single transferable speech at home and look at the investment that is happening in our health service, in terms of the recruitment of staff, capital development in hospitals and the ways in which we are reducing the waiting lists. There has been a decrease in the number of patients on trolleys.

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It seems that 82,000 is acceptable. The numbers are being normalised.

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The Senator is great at putting words out there. It would serve her better to acknowledge what the Government is trying to do and to work with us rather than serving up the single transferable speech from west Belfast. Let us have some reality here.

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I ask the Cathaoirleach to tell the Leader to stop this nonsense. More than 82,000 patients have lain on trolleys this year-----

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I cannot allow Senators back in.

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-----and he is talking about west Belfast. Is it any wonder that there are 600,000 on waiting lists? I am not going to listen to any more of it.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I suggest that the Leader has a habit of goading Members of the House, particularly Sinn Féin Members, and I urge him to reflect on that over the Christmas period.

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I have no difficulty with the Cathaoirleach's comment but the reality must be faced as well. Senator Craughwell, in his contribution, made reference to the fact that we must acknowledge the positive developments that are happening. I said in my response to Senators that nobody should be on a trolley in our hospitals. In that context, Senator Conway-Walsh should not lecture me about the humanity, empathy, compassion or concern of anyone on this side of the House. As we live in the real world too, the Senator should not lecture me.

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The figures speak for themselves.

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The figures are decreasing-----

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There were 82,000 patients on trolleys and the Government is trying to normalise that in the same way as it is trying to normalise homelessness.

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-----and the problem for Senator Conway-Walsh and her party is that they are for nothing and against everything. They do not recognise-----

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If the Leader had listened to my speech, he would have heard me propose solutions.

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She does not recognise, in any shape or form, that there is investment in our health system. She will not acknowledge that recruitment is taking place and that capital investment is happening in hospitals around the country.

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Everything is rosy in the garden.

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She does not listen.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Never the twain will meet. I urge the Leader to move on.

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The Minister for Health and the Government are committed to breaking the cycle of overcrowding and of people having to wait for procedures. That is happening through the renegotiation of the GP contract, investment in primary care, changes in diagnostics and how we do business as well as through an increase in home care packages. That is the reality but I know that Senator Conway-Walsh does not want to hear good news.

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Will the Minister for Health come into the House in the new year to tell us all of that?

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Please, Senator.

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That is all we are asking. We simply want him to come in to tell us where things are at-----

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I am very happy to-----

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-----and to be accountable for what is happening in health services.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I am sure the Leader will have the Minister here in the new year for a full debate on the health service.

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I am very happy to have the Minister come to the House again to take part in a debate, as he has done previously. I have no issue with that.

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Cathaoirleach, I must object. This is about the eighth time that the leader of the Sinn Féin group has come back in and interrupted the Leader. If he does not get a chance to respond, there will be mayhem.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Senator Reilly, both the Leader and the Sinn Féin Senator are wrong in interacting with each other directly. That said, Senator Conway-Walsh is entitled to make her case, whether the Leader likes it. I do not think it is personal but I ask the Leader to move on.

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The reality is that in November 2017 there were 1,800 fewer patients on trolleys by comparison to last November. That is a decrease and can be described as a positive trend downwards. There are 405 patients waiting on trolleys in acute hospitals today. While we all accept that there should be nobody on trolleys, there is a reality that must be faced by all sides of this House. The reality is that for the month of December 2017 there will be 460 fewer patients on trolleys as compared to December 2016. That is progress, black and white independent facts that are verifiable.

Senator Boyhan raised the issue of the District Court. I did not see the "RTÉ Investigates" programme but the issue he raised on the manner and behaviour of judges is one on which you have probably ruled, a Chathaoirligh, and we have no direct say. The Government is producing the Judicial Council Bill. The Bill is before the Oireachtas. It will promote and maintain excellence among the Judiciary in terms of their functioning and high standards in conduct and behaviour. A judicial committee will be established to consider complaints against judges. The point the Senator made is that we should expect all involved in any type of interaction to be courteous and polite irrespective of where that interaction occurs.

Senator Boyhan has raised the matter of the National Rehabilitation Hospital on numerous occasions in the House. The Minister has reopened several beds through the HSE. We have had a debate on the matter in the House. Senator Hopkins has raised this matter as well. I am happy to have the Minister come to the House, but perhaps Senator Boyhan could put in a request for a Commencement matter tomorrow to get his issue resolved.

Senator Humphreys raised the matter of affordable housing. I concur with his views completely. There is need to see the scheme progress. I know the Minister is committed to it. To be fair to the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, and the Minister of State, Deputy English, they are working on the scheme. There is a need for affordable housing. Airbnb is producing a knock-on effect. I share the views of Senator Humphreys and I would be happy to have a debate on the matter in the new year on housing and Airbnb.

Senator Conway-Walsh raised the #mynameis protest. I agree with the Senator on this much in that we all need to see the attitude change towards homelessness in terms of the language used. These people are citizens. They are men and women who, for whatever reason, are unable to provide for themselves or secure accommodation. There is an obligation and responsibility on each of us to work to ensure that no person is left homeless, put out on the street or left sleeping rough. This requires a co-ordinated effort with different interactions between different agencies. Through the Minister, the Department and Rebuilding Ireland a complete package is available. We want to see progress made in this area.

Senator Paddy Burke raised the issue of the Public Sector Standards Bill 2015. In particular, he raised the issue relating to section 5 and local authority members. We will debate the matter when the Bill comes before the House. The classification of county councillors in the same vein as Oireachtas Members, special advisors, chairpersons or chief executives of public bodies and those on remuneration at deputy secretary level in the public sector is somewhat mystifying. The people who serve local authorities work part-time and do not have the same resources or supports that we and others have. While we all want to see transparency, high standards and maintenance of the level of obligations, I believe that placing some local authority members in this category is a wrong move. We will have that debate in the House. I do not have an answer as to when the Bill will be brought back.

Senator Gallagher raised the important issue of school secretaries. He is right to say they are one of the most important points of contact and engagement in the school. I would be happy to have a debate on the matter in the new year.

Senator Lombard raised the issue of seaweed in Bantry Bay and the Minister granting the licence. There is a dispute on the matter of harvesting that relates to the impact on kelp stock. BioAtlantis was awarded the contract. The issue has been coming up in France and Norway since the 1970s. I imagine the Minister of State, Deputy English, would welcome the debate and I would be happy to arrange it for the new year.

I join Senator Craughwell in commending those in the school in Kinsale on their work and the approach they take. The Senator also raised the issue of housing. There is an obligation and a duty on our banks to work with all of us to provide mortgages and loans to keep people in their homes. That is one piece of the jigsaw that needs to be further strengthened and enhanced and I agree with the Senator in that regard.

Senators Feighan, Ó Ríordáin and Reilly made reference the issue of the state of Alabama and race, as you did, a Chathaoirligh, in your ruling. I congratulate the new Alabama Senator, Doug Jones, on his victory and wish him well in his term in the US Senate. Whatever our viewpoints on the issue that was discussed and adjudicated, to be fair, Senator Ó Ríordáin withdrew his remarks. That was the right thing to do. The issue that dogged that campaign is one that we can never condone or support. Irrespective of our political viewpoints, we can say that the state of Alabama stood up for honesty and decency this morning. That is evident in the result.

Senator Feighan also raised the issue of the "RTÉ Investigates" programme. Again, I would be happy to have a debate about the issues of crime and bail in the new year.

Senator Ó Ríordáin made reference to the issues of GP care and primary care. This is a central plank of the Sláintecare report and Government policy. I hope no member of the GP profession would unravel the free GP care that has been put in place. We will have that debate in the new year.

Senator Jennifer Murnane-O'Connor raised the important issue of transport equality for disabled people. I fully concur with the Senator on the matter. It beggars belief that, whether in public or private transport, there are issues around disabled access for people who require specialised entrances or vehicles. It is important to have that debate in the new year and I would be happy to do that.

Senator Reilly also made reference to the issue of housing in Lusk. I welcome the opening of the development today by the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy Eoghan Murphy. The Senator also raised an issue around the new hospital in Donabate and traffic. Perhaps he might get a response more quickly through a Commencement matter. The issue is important to raise.

Senator Norris commented on the property tax. The debate is one that I very much welcome. As I said yesterday, it is important to welcome the Luas and the joined-up approach being taken in Dublin now. The issue of property tax will not go away. I know many Members have different viewpoints on the matter but we will have that debate on it in the new year.

I am not familiar with the remarks of Senator Leyden regarding the issue of the licence for the area he referenced in County Roscommon. It is important to have clarity and for the matter to be resolved. I am sure he could arrange that by means of interaction with the Minister rather than a debate in the House.

Senator Mulherin raised the issue of Amnesty International and the rules of the Standards in Public Office Commission. There has been controversy around Part IV of the Electoral Act 1997, as amended. The matter is being investigated. There is an onus on everyone to fulfil their obligations and comply with the rules of the State. In the case of SIPO, there is a duty on all of us to uphold the law and provide for transparency. That matter will not go away given that there is concern about the legislation, as written and enacted.

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