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Seanad
‹ Order of Business

Social housing targets

Summary

The Leader and Senator Boyhan traded detailed arguments over the published social housing targets, especially the direct-build figures for local authorities. The exchange became an extended dispute about what exactly the figures covered, but both sides eventually restated their positions and the House moved on.

I thank the 15 Members of the House who contributed to the Order of Business. I am happy to take Senator Mark Daly's amendment to the Order of Business, which he articulated yesterday. The Minister, Deputy Denis Naughten, will be in the House after the Order of Business. To be fair, let us be clear, the Minister is a person of probity. He is a man of great integrity. The matter is before the courts, as the Senator knows quite well. I think we would all prefer if the conversation had not taken place but it is important to recognise that the Minister made a purely personal comment on a matter that is in the public domain and, as he said in the Lower House yesterday, the outcome was well known.

If the Senator wants to have the Minister come in, he is coming in. He will make a statement as part of the debate later. To be fair to him, he explained yesterday and he was supported by Eoghan Ó Neachtain, who said that he would not change an ounce of what the Minister said. This goes back to what we all said yesterday on the Order of Business. Everybody wants to have an independent free press which is not, as Senator Coghlan said, controlled by a few. It should be open to everybody to be involved in buying and ownership. The Minister gave his answer to the Dáil yesterday. He will be here later on and will answer again. I am quite happy to have him do that, but to be fair to him he acknowledged what happened.

The other point that needs to be recognised is that there is an onus on those who lobby to register and to be held to account for their actions as well. That also needs to be looked at.

Senators Victor Boyhan and Mark Daly raised the issue of social housing. Let us make it quite clear, the Government has committed €6 billion to support the accelerated delivery of 50,000 additional social housing units by the end of 2021 through building, acquisition and leasing. To clarify for Senator Boyhan, I was not disputing his figure in respect of building, I was saying that he was being selective in how we deliver. Social housing is about building, acquiring and leasing. If the Senator takes the page he has, the figure for Cork including all three aspects is 4,221. That was the point I was making. I was not disputing his figure for building. I was saying that he was being selective in arriving at the point.

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No, I was not. I am sorry but-----

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----I was talking about social housing.

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Yes, and if he reads-----

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I was not selecting anything else, just social direct build.

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The Senator should read the page he has in front of him. There are three-----

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I gave it to the Leader.

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I have it here.

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The correct Bill is the social housing-----

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

We cannot allow debate of this kind. Senator Boyhan raised the issue and the Leader is entitled to respond.

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Let us be quite clear. As a country and a Government, and in terms of local authorities, there are three ways of providing social housing, namely, direct build, acquisition and lease.

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That is the point I was making. I was not in any way being derogatory towards Senator Boyhan. They are the three ways we deliver social housing. If the Senator disputes that, we cannot agree to disagree on it because-----

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I do not need a lecture on how to deliver social housing.

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We also have approved bodies, so there are ways of delivering housing.

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We all know that.

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It is not just the old way of delivery by social build. The other point I want to make is that targets announced today are a significant step in the provision of social housing. What we must make happen, as I have said repeatedly, is that we deliver in terms of affordable and social housing. That is why the unveiling of the commitments here is a significant approach by Government. I am quite happy to support the Government's initiatives in terms of delivering affordable housing. The Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, has acquired extra infrastructure money to the tune of €25 million for development on local authority sites. What we must also do, as I said yesterday, is look at the issue of the affordability of land. If we can do that, we will go a long way towards tackling our social housing crisis.

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The Leader will acknowledge that I was correct. He should just do that.

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If it makes Senator Boyhan happy.

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If the Leader thinks it is right and proper to do so.

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I am not in any way casting aspersions on the Senator's figures. What I was implying-----

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My figures were correct.

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If the Senator would do me the courtesy of letting me answer-----

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What I was saying, if the Senator is prepared to listen to me-----

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I am listening.

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I was not disputing his figure at all for the direct build but where he is incorrect-----

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We will rest it there.

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-----is that county councils and city councils in the acquisition, building and leasing-----

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I was not incorrect because I did not state that.

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The Senator was being selective in what he said in his figures. I am happy to clarify that.

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I did not state that.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Both Senators have made their cases clear and we will move on.

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