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Seanad
‹ Order of Business

Senator Marshall and oversight

Summary

Leyden congratulated Senator Ian Marshall and welcomed Anthony Lawlor back, then Ó Céidigh shifted to the bigger picture, calling for a new oversight commission to hold agencies accountable beyond financial audit.

-----that I did not get an opportunity to congratulate Senator Ian Marshall yesterday. I am impressed by his vision to drive future growth by building relationships and sales between the Republic of Ireland, the United Kingdom, the EU and the rest of the world. That is one of his objectives. My grandparents, Elizabeth McCann and John McVeigh, came from Lurgan in County Armagh. Senator Marshall is also resident in Armagh. I think that is wonderful. I commiserate with the other candidates who sought election. I also welcome Senator Anthony Lawlor back to these Houses. He has been out for two years. He was a Member of the Dáil and a very effective representative for Kildare. It was difficult for him to lose his seat in 2016 but it was a great day for himself and his family when he returned to the Houses and came to Seanad Éireann. As one who knows, I note one cannot savour victory unless one suffers defeat. He has suffered that period. Both Senators will make a very big contribution to this House, as would have all the other candidates who went forward in that by-election. We wish the ones who were successful well, particularly Senator Marshall. He has worked with the Ulster Farmers Union and I have heard about his work in the European Union. He was certainly opposed to Brexit. He is a very good voice for Northern Ireland in this House.

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

Absolutely.

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Tá mise ag iarraidh labhairt faoin mórphictiúr más féidir liom. I want to address the big picture. I am not here to blame one person or other. I suggest that we look at solutions. That is the background I have come from. One starts to see a pattern across various Government agencies of pretty fundamental cock-ups. There are people very close to all our hearts whose families - brothers, sisters, wives, daughters or whatever - have questions in respect of smear tests, where we are going, what we are going to do and what the situation for them is. It is part of an epidemic. I suggest that the Leader speak to the Minister for Finance and ask him to consider bringing forward a restructured version of the Bill that I brought to the House a year and a half ago. This is partly coming from me wearing my business hat. How can a Minister be expected to understand and see everything that is happening in her or his Department? There are 110,000 employees under the aegis of the Department of Health. I believe the Minister is actually doing the very best he could be doing given the circumstances. I am also encouraged by what was said in the Dáil yesterday, which was challenging but broadly understanding of the Minister's position.

What I suggest is the following. We should have some form of a national oversight and audit commission so that every three to five years every State and semi-State agency would be audited in respect of its fitness for purpose, whether it is doing its job properly and its effectiveness. That auditor's report would be made available to the Minister and to both Houses of the Oireachtas.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

Good idea.

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I thank Senator Norris. We have a situation in which the Comptroller and Auditor General checks only the finances. He checks whether all income and expenditure has been properly accounted for but we have nobody checking whether agencies are fit for purpose and holding them accountable. There is no way any Minister from any party would be able to say hand on heart that he or she was happy that everything was being done properly. Even in a small business one cannot do that. One is dependent on staff. We need some sort of an oversight commission. Finally, in 2010 the Government introduced a National Oversight and Audit Commission to oversee local government. That started bringing best practice into local government. Between 2010 and 2016, we have saved €511 million while also increasing efficiency. We have to step up to the mark. If we do what we always did - God forbid - we are going to get what we always got.

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