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Seanad
‹ Order of Business (Resumed)

Order of Business

Summary

The Leader thanked Members, summarised the many Gaza interventions, and addressed procedural points on a proposed debate with the Tánaiste about his meeting with the Israeli ambassador. He also noted Senator Ardagh’s Luas safety concern and the continuing abortion debate issues, while the Chair confirmed the amendment could be resubmitted.

I thank the 24 Members for their contributions on the Order of Business. Some 16 Members - Senators Ardagh, Craughwell, Black, Conway-Walsh, Bacik, Lawlor, Ó Donnghaile, Reilly, Norris, Leyden, Marie-Louise O'Donnell, Devine, Kieran O'Donnell, Horkan, Gavan and Colm Burke - raised the atrocities that took place yesterday in Gaza and the killing of innocent human life. Each of us, irrespective of the viewpoints we hold, is shocked, dismayed and extremely upset by what we saw. The one thing we must learn from history, particularly the history of this country, is that we must all work together to reach a solution, whether that is a two-state solution or otherwise. It is important to recognise that human life was lost yesterday and we must condemn it out of hand.

The international independent investigation called for by the UN Secretary General must take place. Whether Europe plays a role, as Senator Bacik mentioned, or it is carried out by the UN does not matter. There is a need for all involved in moderating, peacekeeping and reconciliation building to come together and to ensure that Ireland plays a role in supporting whatever endeavour can be brought forward to arrive at a peaceful solution. The Government is clear about its commitment in the programme for Government. The Taoiseach spoke earlier about being profoundly shocked. I commend the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade on his proactivity yesterday in his statement, on calling in the Israeli ambassador this morning and on his work in recent weeks in his capacity as Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade. I am happy to invite him to the House. Rather than divide the House, perhaps Senator Conway-Walsh will let me endeavour to get him to the House today, tomorrow or next week. Prior to the Order of Business today I put forward a request to him to come to the House. All Members of the House condemn the killings and wish to see an end to the bloodbath.

Senator Kieran O'Donnell remarked on the opening ceremony yesterday. There was a very good article in The Irish Times this morning contrasting the celebration at one level with the killing and the loss of innocent life at another. Senator Kieran O'Donnell is right. The opening of the American Embassy in Jerusalem was divisive from day 1. It was intended to send a particular message. However, there was an unintended consequence, which was the loss of life.

I commend Senators Black and O'Donnell and all Members of the House on their words today and on their work in trying to bridge the gap - and I hate using the word "gap" because it is the wrong word - in trying to bring about reconciliation and in trying to bring both sides together. This is about two sets of people. As Senator Leyden said, it is about people sharing Jerusalem for example. While we had the euphoria of Israel winning the Eurovision Song Contest on Saturday night, it is tarnished today. It is a bit like sport. I do not believe we should mix politics with sport nor should we mix it with entertainment and music. I do not believe they should be mixed and I would not support Senator Lawlor's call to boycott the Eurovision Song Contest. However, at the same time, there is a need to do something. In response to Senator Conway-Walsh, I hope we will have the Minister to the House tomorrow or next week. I ask for her co-operation in that. I am endeavouring to have him come to the House on that matter.

Senators Ardagh, Murnane O'Connor, Mullen, Colm Burke and, indirectly, Senator Ned O'Sullivan raised the issues of cervical cancer and the eighth amendment. Although they are not linked, they can be grouped under the headings of health and the Department of Health. The words of the eminent Professor Scally are worth looking at. He said that there is a "fevered atmosphere" and that he is running into problems in being able to get information and to further his investigation. We must put that into context. I remind Senator Murnane O'Connor in her absence that last Friday the Government was, as it has always been, about the women in this case. I have been very clear, both as the Leader and in my own capacity as a Member of the House, in condemning the obfuscation and the Chinese walls which were erected. The health system must always be about the patients who require services or medical interventions, in this case the women. That is why Government put a care package in place for the women affected. That is why the Scally investigation was established. That is why we are very much of the view, as I said here every day last week, that we must hold people to account but that we must get all the facts before we do so.

As Senator Colm Burke rightly said, let us restore confidence in this cancer screening programme because cancer screening is so important, as is the vaccination programme. The HPV vaccination does work and it is important that we collectively send a message with regard to showing that it does work. That is why Senator Burke's point was probably the most salient point of all made today when he said that the introduction of HPV testing should be brought forward. He is right. It is about reducing the incidence of false negatives and about forensically getting the information and reducing the likelihood of the human error which we saw in this case. Automation does work. It is also about ensuring a higher detection rate. It is about women and it is about people's lives.

That is why all of us, on this side of the House and on the other side of the House, are absolutely disgusted by what has transpired. There is no excuse whatsoever for what happened to the women and their families. As I did last week, I condemn it again here today. All of us who are involved in politics serve to bring good to the people for whom we work and represent in our communities and in our cities and counties. That is what we must be doing at all times. I hope that the Scally investigation will get to the bottom of this matter and to the truth. We all want to ensure that the women and their families are supported to the fullest. That is what Government is about.

Senator Craughwell raised the issue of the motion on the reasoned opinion which is before the House today. I thank Senator Horkan for his very enlightened contribution to the Order of Business which outlined what the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach has done. He outlined the number of meetings, the speakers who have been invited in and what it is trying to achieve. The function of the scrutiny of this legislation has, as Senator Horkan rightly said, been done by the committee. The motion before the House is based on its scrutiny of the directive's proposals. The Cathaoirleach of the committee, Deputy John McGuinness, and the clerk to the committee, Bríd Dunne, have written to me as Leader of the House. I have put it on the Order Paper for today at the earliest possible time. This function has been delegated by the Seanad to the joint committee under Standing Orders and the Seanad is represented by a number of Members, including Senators Conway-Walsh, Kieran O'Donnell, Horkan and Paddy Burke.

If the Seanad does not pass this motion before Thursday, which, as Senator Horkan has said, is the deadline for submission of a reasoned opinion in this case, then it will not be using its powers under the Lisbon treaty to express a reasoned opinion. The Dáil has already passed the motion and while it is not obligatory for the two Houses to work together, it is certainly most unusual in the issue of what is being asked of us. Before the House makes a decision today, I would like Members to understand there is a limited time that we can discuss this further. The committee has done its work. If the motion is not agreed before Thursday to allow time for the reasoned opinion to be turned into the European Parliament, Commission and Council, we will miss the opportunity but I will be happy to put this matter before the House tomorrow for a debate, rather than have any uncertainty.

Comment on this

I do not think there is a need. Senator Horkan has made the position quite clear.

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I am quite happy to have the matter debated tomorrow at the conclusion of Private Members' time. The question I pose to Senator Craughwell is which Minister does he want to come before us? Lest people think this a matter the Government-----

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Senator Craughwell said there is no need. I am not sure procedurally and the Leader may have to put to the House.

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In order that Senator Craughwell and Members have understood, I am certainly happy to have the debate and I thank Senator Horkan for his intervention. If there is any degree of uncertainty, then I would not wish that to be the preserve of just a few. I have nothing to hide.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Senator Boyhan feels that you may be able to deal with it on the Order Paper without having a debate about it.

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That is fine. I am happy to proceed along the lines suggested in the Order of Business. I am happy to do that.

Senator Ardagh also raised the important issue of the need for safety on the Luas tracks, in particular by cyclists and she highlighted a dangerous situation that could potentially lead to loss of life and severe injury. That is a matter we should take up with the Minister and I commend her on bringing it forward to the House.

Senators Bacik, Ned O'Sullivan and Mullen raised the issue of the eighth amendment, the debate last night and the issue around the commentary for the next ten days. I think Senator Ned O'Sullivan is correct and I know the Cathaoirleach has made an intervention this morning himself. I do not want to see Members coming into the House impugning people who are not here to defend themselves. Last night on the "Claire Byrne Live" debate, I believe there was a scurrilous attack on the professional and personal integrity of Dr. Peter Boylan. I say that having watched the programme. I am not in any way casting aspersions on Members of the House who spoke here in the debates, who spoke last Saturday at a rally, or who were out canvassing on a different side to me, none whatsoever. As Senator Ned O'Sullivan rightly said, this referendum is a personal one, it is a public one, there are divergent views and never perhaps the two shall meet. I hope that we do not allow for television or radio programmes to become a cheerleading, Hill 16-type of event like we saw last night. I did not think it was a spectacle. I did not think it helped the debate. It caused more confusion and probably did not do a service to the people who wanted to watch and listen and make up their minds accordingly. I hope that those who are not here to defend themselves will not be impugned. Senators Bacik, Mullen and Ned O'Sullivan have made their contributions. Some 81% of the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists have taken a position regarding the eighth amendment and that is a fair majority. As a former Chairman of the Joint Committee on Health and Children, which dealt with the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013, we had Professor Monaghan, Senator Mullen and Dr. Boylan before the committee and I hope that for the next ten days, we will have a respectful debate on the facts. Let that be the debate, rather than a debate on personality. I condemn forcefully the attack on Dr. Boylan last night.

I congratulate Senator Byrne on raising the issue of Gaelcholáiste Luimnigh and its Apple award and the need to highlight the ESB bursaries for Ph.D. students. They are two important events and I commend all involved. Senator Boyhan raised the issue of the National Rehabilitation Hospital. I would be happy to have that debate next week.

I congratulate all involved in the Leinster team on winning their fourth European title. It was a tremendous success. Last week the Minister of State with special responsibility for sport, Deputy Griffin, launched the report of Sport Ireland on the sports monitor which showed that 43% of people participate in active sport and 86% now feel they have more opportunity to be involved in sport, and the gender deficit has been closed, which is important. I would be happy to have that debate in the House. I congratulate Kevin O'Brien on his magnificent achievement of a test century yesterday and commend all involved in Irish cricket in Malahide for what was a wonderful day for Irish sport.

Senator Kieran O'Donnell raised the issue of the hoax calls. We all deplore the illegal, dangerous waste of time and resources by people making hoax phone calls and I would be happy to invite the Minister to come to the House to debate that matter.

Senator Devine raised the issue of parental involvement. The House passed a motion on the matter and we have not demurred from our response to that. It is a matter for the Health Service Executive, HSE. It gave an opinion on foot of the motion that she put forward. All we can do here is reinforce our support for the motion which we have done. It is important that there is outreach to people involved in the matter she raised and I have no issue with that.

Senator Gallagher raised the issue of waiting lists and I would be happy to invite the Minister to the House in that regard. If Senator Conway-Walsh will allow me I will endeavour to bring the Minister to the House. I have put the request in and I know he is not available today but we are endeavouring to bring him in sometime this week or next week.

Comment on this

Rather than divide the House I accept the Leader's bona fides and that the Minister will be in here as soon as possible to have this serious debate.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Senator Conway-Walsh has moved an amendment to the Order of Business: "That a debate with the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade on his meeting with the Israeli ambassador and the killing by the Israeli defence forces of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip be taken today." I understand she is not pressing the amendment.

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I will endeavour to bring the Minister to the House this week but I may not be able to do that. I have put in the request - that is my bona fides.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

The Senator can resubmit the amendment.

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