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Seanad
‹ Order of Business

Court comments and women in senior posts

Summary

Senator Mullen argued that members should be careful about criticising lawyers in ongoing court matters, then shifted to a proposal to reserve 45 senior third-level posts for women and asked for a debate on it. Senators Clifford-Lee and Ó Ríordáin challenged his framing, while Mullen defended his point as a call for proper discussion rather than name-calling.

I heard what people had to say this morning relating to a court case. We are very good in this House at giving out about things we hear in the media or being said in other fora. When it comes to how a lawyer defends his or her client, we must be extremely careful. We are legislators and if a change in the law is required about the rules of evidence, and specifically what is admissible as evidence in court, we should address that point. We are not helping in the matter by referring to any barrister trying to do his or her best to defend a client as having made despicable statements or otherwise, which we need them to be able to do in our system. We need to take a sober approach to what is or is not admissible as evidence.

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What about women and victim shaming?

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

Senator Mullen, without interruption.

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It is how we will get to the goal the Senator wishes to achieve. I wanted to address a somewhat vaguely related area, which is the announcement by the Taoiseach and the Minister of State at the Department of Education and Skills, Deputy Mitchell O'Connor, that 45 senior posts in third level institutions would be earmarked exclusively for women. We should debate the proposal in the House with the Minister of State, Deputy Mitchell O'Connor, present. This stems from the controversy about alleged gender discrimination against female candidates for senior positions in my alma mater of the National University of Ireland, Galway. I sympathise deeply with the affected people and I agree that the problem should be addressed. This proposal is misguided and it is typical of the highly gaudily-coloured, quick-fix type solutions we get from the Government on matters like this these days.

How can it be a solution to gender discrimination against women to enforce as an absolute policy gender discrimination against men? How do two wrongs make a right? There may be a need for drastic action. We must look at our country in the context of other European countries, as 25% of top posts in Ireland in this area are held by women. The figure is 29% in Norway, 24% in Germany, 23% in France and 21% in Switzerland. If we have a problem, it seems to be a problem shared by other countries. We should look at what other countries are doing to address the matter. I wonder if any country has proposed such a drastic and ill-thought out step. Are we the first to engage in a social experiment like this?

Language is important. I note the Taoiseach and the Minister of State, Deputy Mitchell O'Connor, using words to the effect that they expected the same criticism from the usual suspects. My colleague, Senator Bacik, used similar phraseology in a piece in the Irish Independent yesterday, and she has held the same professorship in Trinity for the past 22 years. She cannot claim to be speaking from personal experience.

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That is very personal.

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I am not criticising her. I am mentioning her article. Why is it that anybody critiquing proposals like this, either on principle or because they see unforeseen consequences, be painted as either misogynistic, conservative or rooted in the past, either directly or by implication?

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What is the Senator's problem with women?

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Surely this kind of name calling does a disservice to the attempt that needs to be taken to solve this problem, which is the cause of women in the professions.

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

You have gone over time.

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Critics like Senator Bacik and others have been quite wrong about where the opposition is coming from. Many prominent women have criticised this proposal, including Ms Geraldine Kennedy, the first woman editor of a national newspaper. I would not describe her as one of the usual suspects. We need to think and talk. It would be a service to all of us if we could debate with the Minister of State about how to actually solve the problem rather than having gaudily-coloured proposals.

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I want to address the matter of obesity. We need to remind ourselves that the biggest challenge facing our health services, not just in this country but across the western world, are non-communicable diseases. They are not infections. Obesity is an ever-increasing problem with our children now becoming obese and overweight. It is very hard if a child is obese for him or her to lose that weight as an adult. The problems caused include high blood pressure, stroke, heart attack, cancers, diabetes, etc., and I do not need to remind people of the cost of these to our health service.

I raised here before the idea of "no-fry zones" near schools and crèches. In Wicklow we have such a policy but it has run into some difficulty. I see from media reports the possibility there will be a recommendation from the childcare committee that these zones be examined and put in place by the relevant Minister. I hope the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government will get his Department to issue guidelines in this regard and there will be consultation with the Minister for Health in doing that. Children deserve our protection.

This is not about the nanny state, something of which we are often accused, rather protecting them and giving them the best chance in life. Then, when they become adults, they will make those decisions themselves. Habits formed in childhood last a lifetime.

We need action on this. We need clear direction from the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government so that local authorities can implement a no-fry zone to protect our children. We had this problem in Skerries recently where a major fast-food facility is being planned. We had all manner of problems. Local people were highly upset about it. The public will be behind us on this. We need to act.

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