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Seanad
‹ Order of Business

Children's Digital Safety Bill amendment

Summary

Senator Freeman proposes moving her Children's Digital Safety Bill ahead of the main business, and several Senators support the need to tackle harmful online content, especially suicide-related material. The House also touches on the termination of pregnancy Bill and amendment timing, and the Deputy Leader ultimately accepts the amendment, which is agreed.

I propose an amendment to the Order of Business, that No. 16 be taken before No. a1. I hope the House will agree to the amendment.

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I second the amendment.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

What is No. 16?

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It is my Bill, the Children's Digital Safety Bill.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

I thank the Senator.

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I was just going to explain it. I advise the Members of the proposed legislation, namely, the Children's Digital Safety Bill 2018, which seeks to fill a gap in regulations as regards access to unsafe online material, in particular content containing an encouragement and incitement to suicide and the encouragement of prolonged nutritional deprivation that would have the effect of exposing a child to risk to death or endangering health.

The reason I am so concerned about this is that although the good news is that we have seen a decrease in suicide among many of the cohorts of people in Ireland, there has been an increase in young female teenage suicides. That is because they can, whether by accident or deliberately, have access to methods on how to take their life or how to starve themselves. That is causing me great concern. It is something the House should be addressing and legislating for.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

I support Senator Freeman. It is appalling that there are websites that tell people how to commit suicide. Recently, there was a case before the courts where a man had murdered his wife, having contacted a site called, How to Murder Your Wife, on which he had obtained precise instructions. It is outrageous that such things should be allowed on the Internet.

I also wish to mention the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill which is being brought before the House. It is an extremely important Bill. It is a very sensitive subject and I hope there will be what Senator Mullen ironically called "a respectful debate". The issue is very complex.

It would be a mistake to rush into it and I think the Government is making a mistake in that respect. It is not appropriate to lay this burden on general practitioners. I see no reason we should not have clinics for this as it is in clinics that this should be delivered. Perhaps I should leave my comments on this issue for the debate.

I recently visited a young doctor who voted "Yes" in the abortion referendum. He told me something that I had thought was a myth. He said there was a considerable amount of regret among women who have abortions. I thought it was a scare tactic but apparently it is not.

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Frankie Feighan Senator Frank Feighan Fine Gael

I agree with Senator Conway-Walsh on hospital staff. We need to look at other ways of addressing the issue. Sometimes it is not about throwing money at a problem - it is about pooling resources. Everybody knows the good news story about the emergency department at Roscommon County Hospital, which is part of the Saolta group. Senator James Reilly was probably one of the best health Ministers this country has had. He had a very difficult time when there was no money but he got all the various hospitals to come together. Roscommon County Hospital now works with University Hospital Galway and the hospitals in Castlebar, Sligo Ballinasloe and Letterkenny. In the past week there has been a new blood science project and a new laboratory in the hospital, where patients get results much more quickly because of the hospitals working together. A radiographer won a prize in the past two or three weeks in Roscommon County Hospital and, in a survey, 92% of people thought the hospital was either good or very good. However, we do not hear that.

The results are down to the staff and everyone else working together. In the past few years, all the major parties have come together to work on the ten-year plan for health. I hope health will not be a political football, which it once was. There were people who had nothing to do with health but shouted and roared about it but they are missing now. When people work together we get a good result. The only problem in Roscommon County Hospital now is that it is so busy there is not enough car parking. It will be addressed but it is a serious problem. People who were giving out about other things five years ago are now giving out about car parking.

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I dtosach báire, tá súil agam go dtabharfaidh chuile dhuine tacaíocht don Bhille atá ag mo chomhghleacaí, an Seanadóir Freeman atá fíorthábhachtach go deo. It is really important that the people control social media rather than social media controlling the people so I strongly support the Senator in bringing forward this Bill.

The inspiration GAA clubs can give to those of us who come from rural Ireland is very important, whether in the shape of the young women or the young men who play for them, agus sa chás seo, tá club i nGaoth Dobhair, agus déanaim comhghairdeas leo, a bhuaigh craobh Uladh i bpeil sinsear Dé Domhnaigh seo caite don chéad uair riamh. Notwithstanding the emigration which there has been from Gweedore, they won the Ulster football final for the first time ever. I mo bhaile beag féin, Baile an Droichid I call it, nó an Spidéal, bhuaigh siad an craobh Connachta i mbliana freisin coicís ó shin agus déanaim comhghairdeas le clubanna beaga mar sin atá mar chroílár pobail tuaithe na tíre seo.

I have been contacted by a number of people in the south Connemara Gaeltacht who are concerned about the foreshore lease application by the Marine Institute to construct an electricity generating station in Galway Bay, to which there have been over 500 objectors. The facility will provide access to the Smartbay observatory, allowing scientists to conduct research into the marine environment. There are serious concerns locally about this and I ask the Leader to bring it to the attention of the Minister of State, Deputy English, and ask him to come into this House to give us a briefing on the situation.

Senator Colm Burke made some comments about business. I am a rapporteur for a SME White Paper and policy document which we are creating. We might consider whether we could create an SME committee of Senators to look at how we can develop the SME community and support it.

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I offer Sinn Féin's support to the proposal that we sit on Monday afternoon as it would allow Senators to travel from their respective areas. I welcome the passing of the legislation in the Dáil last night and I hope we can have a respectful debate. We should not forget that, since the decisive vote on 25 May, more than 1,600 people have travelled overseas for an abortion, and 550 have imported safe but illegal abortion pills. The reality of the eighth amendment continues and hopefully we can make improvements to the Bill next week.

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Senator Ardagh mentioned the Player Wills site in her area and said she was pleased with the plans for the site. She also raised the issue of unsolicited calling. We have all experienced seeing somebody from Somalia ringing us on our phones, trying to get money out of us. The emails to which she referred are of great concern. When I was a solicitor, I remember an older person coming in and presenting me with an email that was obviously a scam, although it was not obvious to that person. There are people who are not used to dealing with emails and who are vulnerable as a result. It is a valid point to raise and it is an issue we should discuss in the new year.

I agree with Senator McDowell that this is a civilised House and there is plenty of scope for us to have a fair and respectful debate this afternoon and next week. I do not think for one second that we should bulldoze the legislation through the House or that we should simply rubber stamp things. Nor do I subscribe to the view that some people are morally inferior to others in this House. I referred to this point on the Order of Business yesterday and suggested some people just thought they were better than others.

Senator Ruane and others raised the possibility of sitting on Monday. The Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018 will be discussed today and next week. I have no difficulty with sitting on Monday but it would have to be Monday afternoon. It would require the Cathaoirleach to allow it because the deadline for submitting Committee Stage amendments is tomorrow and we would have to allow the Bills Office to at least have Monday morning to get the amendments to us for Monday. I think 11.30 a.m. is a bit early for rural Senators, as well as for the Bills Office. I am agreeable to sit on Monday and Tuesday for Committee Stage but we may need a break between Committee Stage and Report Stage.

Comment on this
Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

The amendments would have to be circulated by the close of business tomorrow evening because Monday is too late. I have no problem with it but any amendments must be submitted before the close of business tomorrow evening, and ideally today. Senators would need to be told this as I would not want to sit at 2 p.m. or 2.30 p.m. on Monday to find them saying they did not have enough notice.

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I will make sure that notice goes out.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Those who wish to submit amendments should do so straight after lunch if this proposal is agreed to.

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Indeed, if we are shortening the time before we commence Committee Stage, I imagine we have to shorten the time for submitting amendments. They should ideally be submitted today. I will make sure an email about that goes out this afternoon.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

In case there is any doubt, the deadline for submitting amendments is today, rather than tomorrow.

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We are hereby setting a deadline of today. I will make sure an email is circulated with regard to the specific time.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

This will all be subject to the motion being seconded and agreed. I am not sure if it was formally seconded. I gather that Senator Warfield agreed with what Senator Ruane said but that he wanted a later time.

Comment on this

I am agreeable to a later time.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

The Senator will need someone to second her motion. Can we get somebody to formally second the motion?

Comment on this

I second the motion.

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On a point of order, this is not really fair to some Senators. One person in particular comes to mind, although I do not share his views. Is it fair to simply tell that person, who I presume has some amendments to table, although I emphasise that I will probably not support them, that he now only has a few hours to submit them?

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I imagine-----

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I cannot comment on that.

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-----that many of the amendments will be pretty similar to those submitted in the Dáil. This is the Order of Business for the Seanad. Senators are required to be here or jto at least be tuned in. We are ordering the business of the House. We can only be expected to hold Senators' hands to a certain degree.

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My point is not about whether the Senator is aware or whether he is watching on a monitor, it is that he must do some work if he is to submit his amendments in time.

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We are all doing that work.

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It is what everyone does.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Other Members are likely to be affected; it is not totally confined to one.

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I am responding.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

However, I am not going to influence the Deputy Leader one way or the other.

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At the end of the day, there is a fine balance between us wanting to allow enough time for the debate and allowing enough time to submit amendments. That is the balance I am trying to strike in suggesting Monday afternoon. That allows both Members and the Bills Office some time. We will extend the time by as much as we can today, but there are many hours left today to get amendments submitted. I take the Senator's point, but we have to get this business done.

Senator Conway-Walsh raised the issue of the report of the Joint Committee on Justice and Equality. I have not had a chance to read it but I have heard Deputy Ó Caoláin talking about it on radio this morning. My opinion differs from that of the committee. I do not believe that we are well served as women by the entire debate on the removal of a clause which implies that a woman's place is in the home from the Constitution being focused on carers as if women and carers are synonymous. I would have thought that the patriarchal society that led to that provision being in the Constitution in the first place is what needs to be discussed, with the importance of a woman's role in life more generally. The report is what it is.

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We will agree to disagree.

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Psychological issues in accident and emergency departments are a major issue. I am also aware of that issue. There are issues with regard to psychiatric services and access to them. A debate in the mental health area in the new year would be useful. I am sure a variety of Senators would like to contribute to such a debate. I will ask that the Minister make himself available for such a debate in the new year.

Senator Humphreys raised an issue local to his area related to Poolbeg. It might be a good issue to raise in a Commencement debate.

Comment on this

It has been had. Maybe the Senator needs to review having another Commencement debate. That is the way to get a specific response from the Minister in a short period of time. That is the facility here. I will communicate his frustrations to the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I will mention one proviso. Once a matter has been submitted for a Commencement debate it cannot be submitted again for some months. That is the difficulty Senator Humphreys faces.

Comment on this

Okay, fair enough.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I am sure the Deputy Leader will communicate the Senator's distress and concern to the Minister directly.

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I will. In fairness, it is a valid point.

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A Commencement debate on a non-commencement is a bit of a joke.

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I got no answers.

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It is a valid concern. Senator Colm Burke suggested we sit a little later on Monday if we were sitting. I agree with that suggestion. His suggestion about more connectivity between politicians in America and politicians in Ireland is one that would never be anything other than positive for Ireland. I agree with it.

I have no difficulty in accepting Senator Freeman's amendment. I support the Bill. I commend her on tabling it. Senator Norris concurred with Senator Freeman's amendment. He also mentioned the Bill coming up for discussion today. His comments are really suited to the actual debate.

Senator Feighan mentioned Roscommon University Hospital. In fairness to him, he has been a champion for that hospital and has gone through a lot on a personal and local level because of that particular issue. Car parking at hospitals is an issue. I did some work on it a couple of years ago. It is something at which the Minister has looked. I am satisfied that work is going on in the HSE to address car parking fees and the availability of car parking. It can be very difficult for families to afford astronomical car parking fees when somebody is very ill and in hospital for an extended period of time.

Senator Ó Céidigh also supported the Children's Digital Protection Bill 2018. His comments in respect of GAA clubs were also well made, especially with regard to small clubs such as those he mentioned. I am not familiar with the specific issue in Galway he raised but it strikes me as something which would be suitable to submit as a Commencement matter in order to get a specific answer, as long as he has not raised it in the last six months.

Senator Warfield is also supportive of the Bill being debated on Monday. It seems we have consensus in the House in ordering our business for Monday.

Comment on this
Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Senator Freeman has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, "That No. 16 be taken before No. a1." The Deputy Leader has indicated that she is prepared to accept it. Is it agreed to? Agreed.

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