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Seanad
‹ An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Order of Business

Summary

The Leader proposed the day’s legislation and timings, then members mostly raised the nurses’ strike and pay dispute, with the Cathaoirleach repeatedly urging order. Victor Boyhan also sought clarification on No. 4 and No. 5 of the schedule before the Chair moved on.

The Order of Business is No. 1, Hallmarking (Amendment) Bill 2016 - Second Stage, to be taken at 12.45 p.m. and adjourned not later than 2.30 p.m., with the time allocated to group spokespersons not to exceed ten minutes each and all other Senators not to exceed five minutes each; No. 2, Companies (Amendment) Bill 2019 - all Stages, to be taken at the conclusion of No. 1 and adjourned not later than 2.30 p.m., if not previously concluded, with the time allocated to group spokespersons on Second Stage not to exceed eight minutes each and all other Senators not to exceed five minutes each, the Minister to be given not less than five minutes to reply to the debate and Committee and Remaining Stages to be taken immediately thereafter; No. 3, statements on housing, to be taken at 2.30 p.m. and conclude not later than 4.30 p.m., with the time allocated to group spokespersons not to exceed ten minutes each and all other Senators not to exceed six minutes each - time can be shared - and the Minister to be given not less than eight minutes to reply to the debate; No. 83, Private Members' business, non-Government motion No. 13 re housing for the elderly, to be taken at 4.30 p.m., with the time allocated for the debate not to exceed two hours; No. 4, Criminal Law (Extraterritorial Jurisdiction) Bill 2018 - Committee and Remaining Stages, to be taken at 6.30 p.m.; and No. 5, Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017 - Committee Stage (resumed), to be taken at the conclusion of No. 4 and adjourned not later than 9 p.m., if not previously concluded.

Comment on this

Many of us on our way to the Seanad today, travelling in our cars, probably passed many nurses on picket lines. They are hardworking nurses who have braved the cold weather to fight for better pay and conditions. The facts before us are that nurses in this country are sometimes paid half of what their colleagues abroad are paid. In Australia, Canada, the Middle East-----

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That is not true.

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Anecdotally, many nurses would say otherwise.

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Anecdotally. Let us base comments on facts.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Please allow Senator Ardagh to put her question.

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Let us have a debate on the facts.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

The Leader will have an ample chance to come in later.

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Obviously, the facts are disputed, but nurses can produce evidence to show that they are-----

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The Senator said nurses received half the pay.

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Yes, because I have spoken to nurses who have said they are paid 50% less than their colleagues who work in Australia, yet they have the exact same qualifications. In some instances, Irish nurses are being paid 50% less than their colleagues working abroad who have the same qualifications. We know that before they even finish their degree and go out on their own, nurses are considering emigrating. We also know that the nurses we currently employ in hospitals are overworked and stresses are beginning to be felt by patients.

We all have many anecdotes about how the health service is being affected. The other day I met a lady who told me about her experience. She went to hospital because she had a sore leg after falling off her bike. She ended up falling off a trolley and breaking a tooth because her concussion was so bad and the nurse in charge was on her own. It was not a case that the nurse had not looked after her properly but of the nurse in charge being completely stretched in every possible way to meet demands. I ask the Minister for Health to engage with the nurses in a meaningful manner to ensure the strike does not continue. We cannot have six days of nurses being on strike. It is not helpful at all.

The second issue I wish to raise is related to anti-social behaviour and drug dealing on city streets. A technology company that has been in operation for 17 years has been forced to move out of the inner city area because of drug dealing and anti-social behaviour at the door of its premises. Such negative behaviour is not just confined to that area because when one walks from Christchurch to the Guinness Storehouse or Kilmainham Gaol, one frequently sees drug dealing.

It seems to be done without any issue. There does not seem to be any fear of arrest or deterrent whatsoever. I ask the Minister for Justice and Equality to look at this matter. This is a tourist area which contains various distilleries, Kilmainham Gaol and the Guinness Storehouse and people are openly dealing drugs on the street. It is, therefore, a very serious matter. It affects the tourism industry and the communities living in these areas because it is just not nice to have people dealing drugs on one's doorstep.

The third issue I want to raise is one that is hugely concerning to all of us, particularly after the passing of the Brady amendment last night. Ultimately, we learned today that a hard Border would impact negatively on the economy. We have been told that if a hard Brexit occurs, there will be an increase in unemployment of up to 2%, which could be up to 50,000 people. The chat about renegotiating the backstop is very worrying. We wish the Tánaiste and the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs, Deputy McEntee, the best. We are behind them 100%, but it is very scary, especially with reference to our preparedness. I have a small business and had no interaction with the Government in terms of help, support and how it will affect us; neither has the business community in Crumlin. I am a solicitor and can say the level of conveyancing has dropped. People and the markets in Dublin are very scared. People are not engaging in transactions at the same volume they did in recent months and I believe it is because of the significant fear about Brexit. There is a lot of fear among the business community, particularly if the UK crashes out. I ask the Leader to consider these matters and look forward to hearing his response.

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I will make one point about Theresa May. What happened last night was possibly the greatest example of reneging in the history of politics.

I wish to take up what Senator Ardagh said about nurses. I look around at the nurses on strike, their reasons for doing so, the 262 consultant posts that have not been filled, consultants in hospitals who have not gone through the registered training programme and the lack of radiographers and occupational therapists. At the same time, I see an overrun of €1.7 billion on the national children's hospital project. The two do not compute. There is something very unstable about this situation. I am not blaming anybody, but there is something very unbalanced about all of it and the public is getting very tired of it.

I wish to ask the Leader about the Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) Act 2015. I have reached the age of an elder, even though I know that I look 37 years old. I am very conscious of how we treat elders. The Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) Act 2015 has not been commenced and there is no reason sections 3 and 8 which involve advanced healthcare directives should not be commenced. I would like very much to see it happen because they give effect to the requirements of common law. I know that other Senators have worked on this issue and know the intricacies of it, but the fact that these sections have not been commenced gives rise to inappropriate assessments of older people being carried out based on the medical model which is not the total model and not the model that should be the end assessment. A person's basic human rights are involved. Áine Flynn was appointed director of the Decision Support Service in October 2017 and is currently working on setting up her office and putting systems in place. The HSE and the National Disability Association did a lot of work on codes of practice. The codes on advanced healthcare directives are at the final stage. However, there seems to be a lack of drive in the Government and Departments. I have now stood here three times and spoken about it.

As a breach of rights is occurring, I would like some explanation. I know that there are a lot of problems, but aging involves people's rights. People are being put into nursing homes who do not want to be there. They have rights in nursing homes. My mother is in a nursing home. I do not want to present myself as a visual aid example, but I am very conscious of elders in Ireland and how we treat them and wish to see their rights preserved in every way. This needs to come back in and we need to advance it because it is lying around, so to speak. People are in place to do it, but it has not been ignited and a certain activity is lacking. Things are happening with regard to Brexit and nurses are out on the street, but this issue is very important. I saw how many carers and nurses who deal with the elderly were outside the gates of facilities today on Roebuck Road and in other areas where homes operate. Could we, please, have the Act commenced or have a discussion about it?

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I endorse the sentiments expressed and points made by Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell. We very much need to progress the implementation of the Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) Act 2015.

I refer to two recent reports of major significance for the Traveller community. The first contains the findings of the inquest into the Carrickmines fire tragedy which were published last week. As we know, ten people lost their lives in this fire. I acknowledge how difficult the process must have been for the families affected. It is worth noting and it was highlighted in an excellent article by Jacinta Brack of the Irish Traveller Movement in today's edition of thejournal.ie that in the year following the Carrickmines fire, three other fires occurred at halting sites in Ballyfermot, Limerick and Wicklow. Thankfully, there was no loss of life, but safety remains a major concern, especially on overcrowded sites. This matter has not been addressed adequately. I welcome the recommendations made in the report. It is important for all of us to know about them, take them on board and monitor Government leadership and action on them.

According to the Irish Traveller Movement, since the publication of the report of the National Directorate Fire and Emergency Management in September 2016, the threats to the safety of Travellers posed by substandard accommodation remain a clear and present danger. The number of Traveller families living in overcrowded conditions has risen and now stands at more than 1,000 families, an increase in excess of 150 since the report of the National Directorate Fire and Emergency Management was published three years ago. The impact in terms of the numbers of people affected is rising. The Irish Traveller Movement contends that there is a direct correlation between overcrowding and shared accommodation, which poses a fundamental threat to the safety of Travellers.

Three years on, these threats have not been adequately addressed. According to the director of the Irish Traveller Movement, Bernard Joyce, there has been no national audit of Traveller fire safety measures since 2016 and no monitoring report on the completion of the programme from the first review. While some local authorities have worked towards fire prevention strategies, there is no audit of completion or fulfilment. The inadequate provision of accommodation for Travellers is at an all-time high. There have been other fires since 2015. The review of the Housing (Traveller Accommodation) Act under way must take into account overcrowding and the poor standard of existing temporary Traveller accommodation and its overuse for long-term stays. The dangers faced by Travellers living in overcrowded conditions remain. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government to outline the measures being put in place to ensure tragedies like the one in Carrickmines never happen again?

I also ask the Leader to invite the Minister to respond to a European Committee of Social Rights report that was also published last week. The report found that Ireland had failed to redress violations in breach of the European Social Charter related to five grounds for Travellers, including insufficient provision and inadequate quality of Traveller accommodation, breaches involving the operation of evictions and the lack of legal aid for those threatened. In the light of both reports, will the Leader ask the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government to give us a full update on the Government's responses to the Carrickmines fire report, the European Committee of Social Rights report and the review of the Housing (Traveller Accommodation) Act that is in train?

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I wish to show solidarity with the thousands of nurses on picket lines all over the State and the thousands of patients and vulnerable persons who have had their operations, procedures and appointments postponed. In particular, I wish to show solidarity with and voice my support for those on the picket lines in places such as Castlebar and Ballina in my home county of Mayo. We must remember that many of these patients have waited months and years for operations, procedures and appointments. I know that the nurses on the picket lines today are really mindful of this.

I call on the Government to intervene and resolve this crisis in order that the nurses can get back to what they are desperate and trained to do, that is, provide the highest standard of healthcare in a safe environment and that patients can receive the treatment they desperately need.

We heard about the elderly woman who was duped by a rogue trader into handing over money for tools that she had no need for whatsoever. As someone who lives in rural Ireland, I am appalled and angered by the rising level of crime. Every week people tell me their stories of being threatened, robbed and assaulted. They range from people like this woman being robbed in her own home to businesses being repeatedly robbed, sometimes by the same individuals, families or gangs. These crimes are being carried out, often during the day, by criminals who are sticking their two fingers up at their victims, including shop owners. At around 5 p.m. outside a funeral home in Castlebar last Friday, I witnessed a taxi driver trying to escape injury, while his attacker, accompanied by another man and a woman, kicked and smashed his vehicle while trying to punch and drag him out of the car.

I have two questions. Where are the gardaí and why do we not have enough of them to walk the streets to prevent such crimes? Above all, why do we have a judicial system that enables and facilitates these crimes by letting off repeat criminals?

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They leave the courts laughing at gardaí and victims knowing that they are free to attack their victims over and over again. We have had 70 hours of filibustering and what I can only describe as time wasting on the Judicial Appointments Commission Bill in this House.

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Will the Leader invite the Minister for Justice and Equality to the House for a full and frank debate on the issue of crime in regional towns and villages? It is unacceptable that we are spending so much time on that Bill, while leaving vulnerable businesses that are already struggling and individuals who are being threatened day in and day out. As legislators, we are doing nothing about it.

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Ged Nash Senator Gerald Nash Labour Party

I wish to speak in solidarity with the INMO nurses who are on strike. I visited the picket lines in Dundalk and Drogheda this morning. To say the determination of the nurses is very strong is not to put too fine a point on it. Those of us who have been involved in industrial action and the industrial relations process know that it is a big decision for any worker to withdraw his or her labour. There are implications, for example, lost income. For nurses, in particular, who take their jobs and roles so seriously it is a major decision to take. Unfortunately, the nurses in the INMO felt they had no option other than to take action. They are involved in a legitimate trade dispute that, unfortunately, shows no sign of ending. However, I firmly believe a way can be found within the parameters of the current public sector pay agreement to reach a negotiated settlement that would benefit the nurses without significantly impacting on the integrity of the overall public sector pay agreement.

We should not be in this position today, but a lack of imagination and lateral thinking has been shown by the Government side in its handling of the issue. It pains me to say it, but in the context of this and a range of other disputes, the Government has shown a tin ear in its approach to industrial relations. This issue can be fixed if the political will is there, but I do not detect it. A way can be found through the current pay agreement to address the nurses' concerns, while retaining the integrity of that agreement if imagination and lateral thinking are shown by the Government side.

As if we needed reminding, the events at Westminster last night reminded us of the existential importance of the retention of the backstop in the British withdrawal agreement from the European Union. In pandering to the extreme elements of the Tory Party's European Research Group, Prime Minister May has shown a willingness to throw Ireland under the proverbial bus. I stood in solidarity with my neighbours in Carrickarnon on the Northern Ireland-Republic of Ireland Border last Saturday. The message there was clear - communities on both sides of the Border, be they nationalist or unionist, did not want a hard Brexit or a hard border on this island. We spoke about solidarity with the nurses, but never before has the solidarity of the EU been more important for Ireland than in the retention of the backstop.

On Friday I will meet my colleague, the German Federal Minister of Justice and Consumer Protection, and an SPD member, Dr. Katarina Barley, who has requested to come to Ireland to discuss Brexit and the reality of life on the Border with residents from north Louth. I look forward to welcoming her. It is important that we use all of the channels, connections and networks available to us - Fine Gael is associated with the Christian democrat group and the Labour Party is associated with the socialist group, the second largest political grouping in the European Parliament - to convince our European partners of the fundamental importance of retaining the backstop in protecting Ireland's interests, North and South, and the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement.

Comment on this

I highlight the more than 35,000 nurses on the picket lines. As the Leader is well aware, University Hospital Limerick is in the news every day and has been mentioned in the House many times by various Senators. I call for sense to prevail and both sides to come together to reach a resolution. Going into the hard winter season, none of us wants to face continuous strikes. Sense needs to prevail and a solution needs to be found, as it is not right that so many people should be out.

I welcome the €200 million investment by Regeneron Pharmaceuticals in the region. On Monday it announced that it would create hundreds of jobs in the pharma sector in the mid-west. It is good news that the mid-west is being seen as a counterbalance to Dublin.

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I give my full support to the nurses. I know how hard they work. They play a major role in people's lives from the time someone is a baby to when he or she dies. They do a great job and we should appreciate them. Everyone needs to get air. The Government must get together with the INMO, sit down and sort this out. The nurses deserve it. Nursing is a calling. It is important that we get this sorted for nurses.

I wish to discuss Safer Internet Day which is celebrated globally in February each year to promote the safe and positive use of digital technology for young people and inspire a national conversation. This year it will occur on 5 February. I raise this matter because we were appalled last week when we heard of the sharing of a video of a deceased person following a fatal crash on the M50. That the Garda had to issue a request shows how far we have sunk as a nation. We need to have the conversation that is called for on 5 February about what we can do in these cases. We need to debate the Internet and how to protect children from a world in which nothing is sacred anymore. I call for a debate on how to adjust current legislation so as to bring the full force of the law down on people for their blatant lack of humanity. While we cannot legislate for bad taste, we should be able to legislate against social media companies allowing instant sharing of such imagery before the authorities have even identified the deceased. I was shocked by what had happened and we need to address the issue. We need to have this conversation on 5 February to ensure this can never happen again.

I will bring up this again again with the Minister.

Going back to the nurses, all of us here need to support the hard-working nurses today.

Comment on this

I thank the Leader and his office for sending a copy of today's proposed Order of Business. I acknowledge what I said yesterday. It is his prerogative and nobody else's to bring forward the proposed Order of Business for the day. It is our prerogative, as Members, to accept, amend or reject the Order of Business proposed. That is clear and I will not repeat it. It would be helpful if every Member of the House had the same piece of paper I have in my hand. I am aware the leaders have received it, but I call for every Member to have a copy of the Order of Business in his or her hand because it is important.

I propose an amendment to the Order of Business but before so doing, I must note I look forward to engaging in the debate on the Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017 today. It received a great deal of coverage in the media today, particularly in the printed media, but I am looking forward to being here. I propose an amendment to the Order of Business - of course, I have the benefit of having it in front of me - that in respect of No. 5, Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017 - Committee Stage (resumed), which is to be taken at the conclusion of No. 4 and adjourned not later than 9 p.m., there be an assurance, in the interest of the orderly operation of business today, that it would not be taken before 6.30 p.m. Alternatively, I seek confirmation from the Leader to that effect. I am happy to be here until 9 p.m., but it is a matter for Members. As I say, I am conscious that it is our prerogative, as Senators, to agree the Order of Business.

Comment on this
Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

By way of clarification and to try to be helpful, No. 4, Criminal Law (Extraterritorial Jurisdiction) Bill 2018, cannot be taken before 6.30 p.m.

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What is the purpose of the amendment? I do not understand its purpose.

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No. 5 is to be taken at the conclusion of No. 4 and adjourned not later than 9 p.m., if not previously concluded. I am happy, if I receive that assurance. That is all I need.

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I do not understand what the Senator is trying to propose.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

In essence, the Senator is saying, if I am getting this right in my ceann, that the Leader will adhere to the proposal before us.

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The proposal in the Order of Business is quite clear.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I think so.

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It is very clear.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

There is no amendment as such, if the Leader sticks to the-----

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It is to seek clarification.

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It is to be taken at the conclusion of No. 4.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Yes, okay.

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What if it is early?

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The Senator might do me the courtesy of listening for one second. If No. 4 finishes early, No. 5 runs into it.

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That is the point I am making.

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We have always done that.

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A Chathaoirligh-----

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On a point of order-----

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

At this stage, I want to proceed. The Senator has made a suggestion which the Leader can accommodate and explain in his response.

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