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Seanad
‹ An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Children's hospital and related issues

Summary

The Leader responds at length to the many interventions, defending the Government while accepting the hospital overruns are unacceptable and promising the Minister will come to the House. He also addresses GP contract protests, nuclear waste concerns, Revenue issues, crisis pregnancy supports, Spinraza, housing points, and the policing debate, often suggesting some matters are better raised in Commencement or committee settings.

I thank the 17 Members who made contributions to the Order of Business.

Eight Members referred to the national children's hospital. We are in Oscar season - people are queueing up for awards but there is no presenter. I assure the academy and Hollywood that there are plenty of actors here who would do a great job presenting because of the level of hyped-up commentary and ill-informed facts doing the rounds this morning.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

And the Oscar goes to Senator Ó Ríordáin.

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

Order, please.

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I hope Senator Norris had the right envelope.

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

The Leader will be respectful.

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Through the Chair, let me be quite clear about this. I am happy to have the Minister come before the House.

Regarding Senator Ardagh's amendment, the difficulty I have is that the Minister is currently attending the meeting of the Joint Committee on Health and will be in the Dáil later this afternoon. As a result, I cannot give her a commitment to have him before the House this evening-----

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Perhaps the Leader could schedule something early-----

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-----but I can talk to her after the Order of Business if she likes and give her a commitment to have the Minister before the House at the earliest possible opportunity. I thank the Senator.

As stated yesterday, we are all disappointed by and find it unacceptable to see the overruns relating to the national children's hospital. I did not hear Senator Ardagh or any of the other members of Fianna Fáil talk about the €40 million that was incurred because of Bertie Ahern's delay in respect of the Mater Hospital site. I did not-----

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

Please, Senator.

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We heard the Senator going on ad nauseam-----

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

Please, through the Chair.

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

Please.

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We heard Senator Nash as well. Senator Ó Ríordáin should give us a break.

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No one is in charge of anything. The Minister for Justice and Equality-----

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Give us a break.

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

Please, Leader, through the Chair.

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Give us a break. We are-----

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

The Chair has ruled. Senator Ó Ríordáin was out of order earlier. We know that. I thank the Leader.

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No one is hiding. The Minister has been before the committee. The Minister for Finance has been before the committee. This does not stop people from questioning him. He has been before the Committee of Public Accounts as well. I answered yesterday's questions about the children's hospital and I make the point again now that when it is built, there will be Members of this House at the official opening with their chests out, proudly thumping the table.

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The Leader said that yesterday.

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

Order.

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And I will repeat it today.

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That does not-----

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

Senator Devine has had her say.

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The Members opposite have been given an alternative to what was to be done. Some of them want to stop the hospital project completely, more of them want to go off and build a new one and the remainder are talking nonsense. If it was a runaway train, we would not be here today at all. The train would be continuing out the gap. That is another ill-informed comment. What we have now is a PwC report in progress, which will come back to us. All of us-----

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That is the crowd that said the banks would not fail, is it not?

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

Ciúnas at the back, Senators, please.

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I will have the Minister come before the House.

Senators Boyhan and Swanick raised the issue of today's NAGP protest and the issues raised by the doctors. It is important we have progress made on the contracts for GPs. The delay is inordinate. Progress needs to happen rapidly. I fully concur that there is now an obligation on the HSE to drive this new contract on.

Senator Nash referred to the proposed nuclear waste site. I had not heard of this proposal until he raised it just now, but it is a matter of grave concern. I hope the Government will outline the views he has articulated this morning in that regard.

I thank Senator Leyden for his correspondence regarding the Bill he has put forward on the registration of wills. I will give consideration to the matter.

I commend Senator Lawless on the work he has been doing with the Irish across North America. I am glad the referendum has been postponed because it will allow for an informed debate on what is proposed. That is an important decision the Government has made.

Senator Norris raised the very tragic case of Shane O'Farrell. As the Senator rightly stated, there is a grieving family who require answers. The Minister for Justice and Equality, on the completion of the GSOC report, has asked Judge Gerard Haughton to engage in a scoping exercise. I am informed by the Minister's office that Judge Haughton will meet the O'Farrell family. The report is to come back in eight weeks. I will give consideration to Senator Norris's request because he was the person who pushed the matter at the beginning. It might be a little premature to have the debate before the finalisation of the report, but I will talk to the Senator again about that.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

I will push the matter to a vote next week.

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That is the Senator's prerogative.

Senators Murnane O'Connor and Butler raised different matters concerning Revenue. Both matters would perhaps be better suited to the Commencement. The Senators would get more expeditious replies.

Senator Mulherin raised the very important issue of supports for women in vulnerable positions travelling from Dublin to the western seaboard. I will ask the Minister to come before the House to discuss the matter.

Senator Gavan referred to his Commencement debate this morning. The Minister's speech, which I have in front of me, does not tally with the Senator's interpretation. However, it is the Senator's prerogative to interpret the reply as he sees fit.

Senator Ó Ríordáin referred to anti-social behaviour on Dublin's northside. To be fair, despite my differences with Senator Ó Ríordáin, there is a need to get clarity as to who is responsible for particular matters. We have written to many different agencies and Ministers only to be told that they do not have responsibility in this area. I sit on a policing forum in Cork. Perhaps Senator Ó Ríordáin-----

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

I sit on the one in Kerry.

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I appreciate that. To be fair to Senator Ó Ríordáin, this is an important issue. It is a matter of protecting people in communities. It is about ensuring that the operations of An Garda Síochána within the community - I will not name names - are carried out properly, that a thorough analysis of them is carried out and that there is a debate between public representatives and An Garda Síochána. To assist the Senator, this might be a matter to raise at a joint policing committee.

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

Yes. That is the proper forum.

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I am just trying to be helpful.

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The Senator is doing well so far.

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If I said "black", the Senator would say "white" at this stage.

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No. The Senator is doing pretty well so far.

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

Senator Ó Ríordáin is out of order. The Leader is right about policing committees. I serve on one. I call on the Leader to continue.

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As part of our role as public representatives, we have an obligation to raise matters pertaining to local communities with officialdom. There is a shield emerging, and it has emerged through its creation by the party opposite, around health in particular such that the Minister is not responsible for the HSE and that in the case of An Garda Síochána, it is an operational matter. It may well be an operational matter, but we need to be able to ask questions about operational matters and receive answers, and I will try to assist the Senator in this regard.

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

Is the Leader scheduling debate on the matter? That would be helpful.

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Yes, I endeavour to do so. To be fair, the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Flanagan, is probably one of the few Ministers who is open to talking about issues and engaging on them. As a general rule, however, we need the opportunity to question officialdom on issues that affect the communities we represent. I agree with the Senator on that.

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I thank the Leader for that.

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Senators Swanick and Conway-Walsh referred to Spinraza. The HSE is carrying out an assessment. I appreciate the difficulty and the sensitivity surrounding this matter. I do not have the answer they are seeking, but it is a matter of extreme importance and one that needs to be resolved more quickly.

To respond to Senator Humphreys, we had the Minister here to discuss housing. Again, to be helpful, the points the Senator made would be more suited to a Commencement matter. I thank him for his remarks.

I appreciate his patience regarding the dementia and Alzheimer's care issue, which is important. I am glad we have had a resolution to the issue he raised and I thank him for his remarks. I ask Senator Ardagh not to divide the House. I will endeavour to have the Minister come to the House tomorrow or early next week.

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