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Seanad
‹ An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

National children's hospital overrun

Summary

Senator Clifford-Lee and others criticised the hospital’s massive cost overrun and the diversion of funding from other capital projects, especially transport. Senators Craughwell and Norris then argued about accountability and ministerial responsibility, with repeated interjections from the Chair.

No bother. I forgive you. I continue to raise the concerns about the national children's hospital. I was once again out and about in north County Dublin knocking on doors and it was again the main topic of conversation. Everyone wanted to talk about the massive overruns. There is now a shift in focus from the massive overruns to where we are going to get the money to plug the gap. We learn that €100 million is to be taken out of capital expenditure this year alone. This sum must be found to plug this outrageous gap due to the overspend on the national children's hospital. I therefore continue the call of my colleague, Senator Ardagh, last week that we get the Minister for Health into the Chamber as soon as possible this week to talk about the overruns at the children's hospital and specifically to outline where the cuts will come.

We have learnt through the media that €100 million is what must come out of the capital budget this year but, astonishingly, €30 million must come out of the transport budget, with all the other Departments contributing approximately €3 million each. It is astonishing that the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport must plug the gap in the Department of Health's expenditure. As well as the Minister for Health, I would like the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to come to the House because we want to learn what transport projects will be cut. We have-----

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

Stepaside Garda station.

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Perhaps one of the reasons €30 million is coming from the transport budget is that the Minister's focus is elsewhere.

We will be back debating the Judicial Appointments Commission Bill following the Order of Business. He is concerning himself with judicial appointments and the reopening of Garda stations and taking his eye off the ball. A total of 30% of this year's overrun must be borne by the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. What transport infrastructure project will bear the brunt of this? Will BusConnects be rolled out? Will we have the greenways that have been promised? What about the carriages for the northern commuter line? I face into packed carriages when I get on the train in the morning in Donabate, as do all my constituents. Will we see this resolved? We need the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to come to the House. Will this create a precedent for following years? We know the gap will have to be plugged in the coming years. Will the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport have to plug the gap? I could go on and on about the failings of the Minister in that Department. This is an important issue, particularly in north County Dublin, which has the fastest growing population in the country and where the transport infrastructure does not cater for the needs of the people living there currently or who will live there in future. The Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport must plug the gap caused by the Department of Health. The Ministers for Health and Transport, Tourism and Sport need to come to the Chamber to answer our pressing questions on this.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I welcome Valerie and Martin Hurley, neighbours of mine from west Cork, to the Public Gallery. Martin is celebrating his 50th birthday. They are accompanied by Deputy Murphy O'Mahony. I hope they have a lovely day and that Martin has a great 50th birthday.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

Hear, hear.

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I want to address the issue of the national children's hospital and other associated matters. I have also been addressed and spoken to by members of the public about the waste of parliamentary time in calling for Ministers' heads every time something goes wrong.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

Exactly.

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What changed in the Department of Justice and Equality when Deputy Frances Fitzgerald's head was taken? What changed when Deputy Denis Naughten's head was taken? What changes in any Department when a head is taken? The same people are left behind doing the same job they always did. I have spoken previously about how the Carltona doctrine protects those who are behind Ministers. If the Minister, Deputy Harris, had been watching the children's hospital all day every day and was not watching the nurses, people would have said we needed his head because he had not been watching the nurses. That would mean he must divide his time between the nurses and the hospital but what about the GPs? This bloody nonsense has to stop. It is debasing politics and both Houses of the Oireachtas.

The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport has been mentioned with regard to the Judicial Appointments Commission Bill. There have been 86 hours of debate so far.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

More.

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Half of the Government has no faith whatsoever in the Bill. The bottom line on it is another little deal was done.

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I am sorry but I am trying to get something across.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Senator Craughwell is almost succeeding. He should continue.

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Members of the public are entitled to fair representation in the House and we have had the nonsense for 86 hours. Now, I am told the Leader is to step up debate on the Bill to two days a week but for what? Why are we doing this? Half of the Leader's party does not believe the Bill is worthy.

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Does Senator Craughwell have Senator McDowell's single transferable script?

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If the Leader wants to play that old game, we can play it. The bottom line is if the Government was honest-----

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

Please observe the dignity of the House.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Through the Chair.

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-----it would pull the Bill and let us get back to proper parliamentary work. We have had 86 hours of debate for what? The chances are when the Bill is eventually dragged through the House, the President will send it to the Supreme Court and it will be struck down because it is unconstitutional anyway.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

And the Minister knows it is not constitutional.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Please, this is-----

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It is a pity Senator Craughwell is not the President.

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He had the chance.

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I did not get the Leader's backing.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Please.

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The white flag was raised before the off.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

This is not the Supreme Court so------

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Among ourselves, we need to find time to decide where we should debate and what we should debate.

However, it is a nonsense to call for a Minister's head every time there is a little glitch outside the door. What happens? The same people stay in place and the same things go on. Perhaps the €30 million is being taken from the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport as the quid pro quo for the Judicial Appointments Commission Bill. I do not know. We need to stop this.

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