Last Thursday, when the revelations came to light about the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland's investigations and the withholding of what he deemed sensitive and significant information from those investigations, I asked the Deputy Leader if the Minister for Justice and Equality could come before the House. These issues are very sensitive and emotive, as we have already seen here today. I will ensure that I temper my remarks, conscious of the victims concerned, but there are a number of points that need to be made and a number of issues that need to be addressed.

I want to refer to Senator Ardagh's speech. I have a feeling — I do not say this disrespectfully — that she does not mean to cause any additional hurt or trauma for the families and that she was handed a script to recite. It is worth reflecting on that. Many words were missing from the address this morning. These included "victims", "the Ormeau Road bookmaker's", "Councillor Eddie Fullerton", "the UDA", "the UVF", "Special Branch", "murder", "Police Ombudsman", "accountability", "truth" and "justice". What we are talking about here relates to some 30 killings by British security services or, indeed, their proxies, loyalist paramilitaries. Everything else is just a distraction. That is what we should be talking about in the here and now. Through their solicitors, families have asked that the Irish Government scrutinise how the omission or deliberate withholding, or whatever it may prove to be, came to pass.

Like Senator Devine, I grew up a short distance from the Ormeau Road bookmaker's. I know many of the families affected and survivors. Our constituency office is just a few doors up from the bookmaker's. I would have occasionally gone for a pint in the Hatfield House bar and I worked in the local Gaelscoil so I know the area very well. I know the families there have waited 27 years for truth and justice. Their hearing that the PSNI has withheld significant and sensitive information does not warrant a shouting match back and forward here; it warrants serious consideration and reflection by all of us and the Government. I have heard various questions asked, including about Sinn Féin. We could get into this if people want but I do not believe it does the victims any good.

Damien Walsh was 17 and on a youth training scheme at the Dairy Farm complex on the night he was killed. He went to work in a coalyard. He was not actually meant to be working on the night. He changed his shift so he could go out with his girlfriend to the pictures the following night. The UFF came into the courtyard and shot Damien upwards of six times in the back. That is bad enough. When talking about these cases, I do not believe Damien's mother, Marian, would appreciate people shouting back and forward and asking about this case or that. I think Marian would appreciate it if people took the time to reflect on the loss of her son and the fact that, when he was shot and killed by the UFF, there was an undercover British army intelligence unit watching the coal depot that did not intervene.

These are the kinds of cases we are talking about. They pertain to seven counties and involve 30 murders, including that of Councillor Eddie Fullerton in Buncrana, County Donegal. I ask again that, as per the families' request, the Minister for Justice and Equality come to the House to comment on the revelations during an available slot next week and address the families, given their concerns, and indicate the Irish Government's view on this and the action it hopes to take.

I thank the 14 Members who contributed on the Order of Business. Senators Ardagh, Conway-Walsh, Devine and Ó Domhnaill raised the remarks of the Sinn Féin leader regarding the appointment of a new PSNI Chief Constable. Notwithstanding the last remarks made and the contribution of Senator Ó Donnghaile to the effect that victims on all sides of the political divide in the North are looking for truth and justice, are grieving and do not want in any way to be seen to denigrate their loved ones or their own grief, and the fact that we all want reconciliation, it is important that the Senator and other Members put in context the fact that Sinn Féin has no authority to dictate what can be said and to whom. To me, it seems to have no regard for authority at all. It is absolutely destructive in the way it approaches things.

Give me a break.

Sinn Féin pulled down the assembly in the North.

Why?

All it can do in these Houses-----

Choose between marriage equality and caring about equality.

-----is to put down motions of no confidence looking for a political head.

The Leader might address the issue.

It has no sense of how to fix anything or how to solve anything. It does not accept any responsibility-----

The Leader might address the concerns of the families here.

-----and it opposes everything. In the context of Senator Ó Donnghaile's contribution, I understand and acknowledge the remarks of the ombudsman, Dr. Maguire. Nobody condones or supports the concealing or withholding of information for whatever reason. I note the report. I am not here as an apologist for anybody but there are two parts to what I am speaking about.

Perhaps that is why confidence is so low in policing. One can understand why the confidence is so low.

Senator Ó Donnghaile has a one dimensional view of the world and that is his entitlement.

I do not.

To be fair, the Senator does.

I do not. Does the Leader want to go up on the Ormeau Road with me?

I have been up there. I will walk with the Senator any day.

Does the Leader want to come up to the Ormeau Road and meet the families?

I will walk with Senator Ó Donnghaile any day.

Please do.

I will walk with the Senator any day up there.

I will take the Leader up on that.

I have friends of mine, as I have said to Senator Ó Donnghaile previously, and I would be happy to go up there with him any time.

I am a very open person. I was the first Oireachtas health committee Chair to bring the committee to Stormont-----

Very good.

-----to have a joint sitting there.

We welcomed, collectively, in this Chamber, the Lord Mayor of Belfast, Senator Ó Donnghaile's party colleague, who gave a very impressive contribution here. Let me make it clear that I do not come with any dimension other than open-mindedness but Senator Ó Donnghaile's party has a one-dimensional view.

I will challenge Senator Ó Donnghaile on this. The Senator's own party colleague, Mr. Gerry Kelly MLA, stated in contradiction of Senator Ó Donnghaile's party leader, that there were people within the PSNI who were capable of the job. Mr. Kelly stated that Senator Ó Donnghaile's party leader did not know the top brass of the PSNI. In terms of policing, if we have learned anything from the mistakes of the Troubles or if we learned from the mistakes that we made down here, there is no place for political involvement in policing. It should be independent and devoid of political interference. Senator Ó Donnghaile's own party is against political policing.

That is the ombudsman telling us.

The Senator is either for-----

The ombudsman told us.

One cannot be all things to all people. One cannot interfere in a political process which is independent and transparent to appoint a new PSNI Chief Constable. Senator Ó Donnghaile has his own party members on the policing board who are quite capable of appointing someone. I would make that point. Senator Ardagh is well within her remit to come into this Chamber today and make her contribution in the way she did.

Tomorrow Senator Ardagh might mention the victims. Senator Buttimer might mention the victims tomorrow.

There were other victims.

What will they do with the hiding of evidence?

Senator Ó Donnghaile talks about looking after victims and this is the victims they have made.

There is no evidence.

Through the Chair. Respect the Chair.

All of us-----

The Senator did know what I am talking about. They wanted us to get involved as a reasonable party in Northern Ireland.

All of us-----

If the Senators are going to continue-----

If Senators Ardagh and Devine are going to continue to have a conversation here, I will suspend the House for 20 minutes.

All this has done is expose-----

Please let the Leader respond.

All of us-----

I hope the people of the North are listening.

-----want to achieve, despite the rhetoric of some, the continuation of reconciliation on our island. There are victims on all sides of the political debate and divide who are looking for justice-----

Hear, hear.

-----and truth. That applies north of our island - orange, green or white-----

Exactly.

And south.

-----and, in fact, down South. There are members of An Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces who were killed and whose families are grieving today and who require answers.

Senator Ardagh raised the issue of the INIS. As the Senator rightly said, there was a significant issue around the system put in place. The re-entry visa system has change and will again change in 2019. The current online system is to be replaced sometime this year. I have not got a timeline for the Senator on that. I accept the point the Senator makes regarding the need for interpersonal engagement. We all have members of our own community who come in to talk to us about their visa requirements. The lack of a human interface needs to be changed immediately.

I do not have an answer on the question raised about cannabis products. A Commencement matter might prove an expeditious means of getting an answer.

Senator Craughwell made a fine contribution on the Judicial Appointments Bill. In order that we understand each other and to enable Senator Craughwell to amend his prepared script so that it does not require correction, we have had two hours of debate on the Bill on Report Stage and 64 hours of debate on Committee Stage. I fully understand that people have different points of view on the Bill. I reiterate that Government or other legislation has been opposed only twice on the Order of Business and that related to the scheduling of the Judicial Appointments Bill. Members will be aware that since I became Leader, I have never opposed any Senator bringing a Bill before the House to move it to the next Stage. I have always accepted that. However, it is important that we recognise that part of the job of this House is to scrutinise, debate and pass legislation and to make statements. By any stretch of the imagination, 66 hours of engagement on the Judicial Appointments Bill is enough.

Which statement was factually incorrect?

I ask Senators to reflect and replay the proceedings here and look at some of the interaction, the filibustering and childish behaviour-----

Were Standing Orders breached at any stage?

-----involving the calling of quorums and walk-through votes. All of this casts this House in a poor light among commentators, Members and people who watch proceedings every day. I have received emails from people who watch Oireachtas TV complaining about the way in which this Bill is being delayed. I am all for Members having a right to express their views, but 66 hours of debate for a Bill that has excited many people's interest is fair enough. However, I put it to Senator Craughwell that there comes a point when a time limit needs to be applied. I am very much aware that Senator Craughwell and other members of his group oppose the Bill. I stand over my remarks that some of the behaviour is unacceptable and not parliamentary.

On a point of information, the Leader is entitled to make his opinion known. However it is the job of Senators to oppose legislation and try to correct it when it is wrong.

The Senator should resume his seat.

I said that.

We have done nothing but use the parliamentary procedures available to us.

I think Senator Craughwell is saying that full parliamentary scrutiny by whatever means is appropriate under Standing Orders. I have been on different sides of this in practice but I agree with that bit.