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Seanad
‹ An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Brexit and Libya abuses

Summary

Senator Marshall urged calm over Brexit and supported giving Westminster space to decide, with others agreeing. Senator Gavan then raised human rights abuses in Libya and praised Irish journalist Sally Hayden’s reporting, while Senator Coghlan also backed the Brexit and Champ comments.

Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I call Senator Marshall; I regret that I did not see him indicating. He was leapfrogged there for a short while.

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The Brexit discussions change on a daily basis and, in fact, on an hourly basis at the moment. In the last 48 hours we have witnessed a Prime Minister, after a deal had been rejected, offer the opportunity to separate the votes to leaving without a deal or the opportunity to vote on whether to extend Article 50. We have also witnessed Jeremy Corbyn do a U-turn and move to a position to support a second referendum.

This is a time for cool heads and steady leadership. We need to give space for Westminster to follow protocols and due process to define what will actually happen. It is not a time for inflammatory language or antagonising words. We all need to move away from the rhetoric of a bad deal being better than no deal or of no deal being better than a bad deal because all of this language is unhelpful. We need to recognise once and for all in Britain, Ireland and Europe that there is no such thing as a good Brexit.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

Hear, hear.

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If the UK needs and requests more time then that is good. If the UK needs and requires these decisions to be referred to parliament then that is good. If the Prime Minister and the UK Government cannot get a majority position and decide to go back to the electorate then that is good-----

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

Hear, hear.

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-----and should be seen as such. Do not underestimate the integrity of either the politicians or the electorate. The best people to decide the future of the UK and its relationship with Ireland, the EU and the rest of the world are ultimately the electorate. Give them all of the facts, and I mean all of the facts, give them all of the information and let them decide. Democracy dictates that one is entitled to change one's mind and it is not undemocratic to do so. British citizens, like Irish citizens, are perfectly entitled to change their mind based on information that they now have.

In a climate where we are all reminded of the importance of respect we must respect the referendum, which we have done; we must respect the need to get this right, which we are doing; and, we must respect the 16 million people who did not elect to leave. It was Franklin D. Roosevelt who said: "Let us never forget that government is ourselves and not an alien power over us. The ultimate rules of our democracy are not a President and senators and congressmen and government officials, but the voters of this country." In 2016, this decision was presented to an electorate. If the British Government is so divided and is failing to get a majority or a consensus then it must raise the question of whether this is the right thing to do. Brexit began being about opportunity and sovereignty and has ended up being about damage limitation and division. Leader, I urge that this Government gives the UK Government time and space, and accepts that a few extra weeks now would be time well spent.

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Last Monday evening, I tuned into "Channel 4 News" to get the latest news about the ongoing soap opera that is Brexit but it was not the lead item. In fact, the lead item was from Libya, which involved tremendous work done by an Irish journalist called Sally Hayden. She has been crucial in exposing the horrific torture and human rights abuses going on in Libya. I recommend that people watch the film, which can be downloaded from "Channel 4 News".

The film actually showed Eritreans being tortured, having hot molten plastic put on their backs, and having concrete blocks placed on their backs while they lay in chains on the floor screaming in pain. The reason this is happening is because the pirates who have taken these guys, girls, women and children extort large sums of money from the families in Eritrea. The horrible truth is that our Government is complicit in this happening because, through the permanent structured co-operation, PESCO, rather than rescue migrants and bring them to safe havens, now the PESCO forces, including our Naval Service, hand them over to the Libyan coastguard, which is the equivalent of handing these people over to pirates. The Libyan authorities, in turn, sell them as human commodities to people traffickers and at that point the torture, degradation, rape and mutilation is an everyday occurrence. This has all been filmed and it was all shown on "Channel 4 News" on Monday night.

Sinn Féin has been consistent in opposing the membership of PESCO by our naval forces. It gives me no pleasure to say that this situation shows how right we were. The most shameless disregard for human rights across the world is happening in the Mediterranean and, unfortunately, our Naval Service is part of it. We pay large sums of money to Libya to take care of the problems so that we do not have to see these people or worry about them and, in turn, they are sold, tortured, mutilated and killed.

I ask for a debate on the matter, Cathaoirleach, as a matter of urgency. It is time for people to stop their silence. Surely we should all be able to speak out against what is happening in Libya and against the role of our Naval Service in allowing it to happen.

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I share the sentiments expressed by Senator Marshall. Thanks be to God, it now looks like we will have a deal or, as he hinted at, an extension. Please God, the moderate voices across both parties in Westminster will be to the fore and sense will prevail. I agree fully with what he has said.

I agree with Senator Feighan about the Champ event. It is a very good effort and has borne fruit over the past year or more by maintaining very good friendly relations between politicians at Westminster and here in Ireland. While it may not be possible for us all to get to the event on 12 March, we all wish them well and, hopefully, apart from Senator Feighan that some few others will attend.

This morning I am very concerned about the increasing number of deer in Kerry, particularly in the Killarney area. Traditionally, the deer have been largely confined to the Killarney National Park. However, there is much evidence in recent times that the deer have encroached on and roam well beyond the parkland. While I accept that fences are not the answer, in a few specific instances, mainly between the park and the Castle Ross lands and Killarney Golf & Fishing Club, some limited fencing would help. This may be also the case on another stretch of road between Ballydowney and Gortroe.

Our coroner has been concerned about the increasing number of accidents, unfortunately, causing death in a few instances. I am not too sure if the Garda is fully satisfied about that, but in any event, the deer are crossing that road to farm land on the northern side, and that is an important route on the Ring of Kerry. We need to hear more about an updated management plan from the National Parks and Wildlife Service. It might be appropriate for us to hear from the Minister on this matter generally.

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