On radio this morning the retired commandant Cathal Berry spoke eloquently about the Defence Forces and the plight in which its members found themselves. I have spoken about this topic every other week since I was elected to Seanad Éireann, but I could not say it as well as the retired commandant did this morning. He raised several issues, all of which I have raised previously and will do so again. One of them was administrators and civil servants making defence and security decisions and policies. He likened it to administrators going into an operating theatre in a HSE hospital and performing an operation. It is not right and does not work. The same should apply to the Defence Forces. Administrators should not be making military decisions when they do not have military experience.

Another issue raised was that of duty pay, another matter I raise in the House on a regular basis. Some of my friends are on duty for 24 hours at weekends in Custume Barracks in Athlone. Their gross pay is €2 per hour. After tax we are talking about a sum of €1 per hour which, as everybody knows, is not the minimum wage. It is outrageous and should not be allowed to continue.

The retired commandant also raised the issue of retention. Approximately €15 million has been spent on the advertising of careers in the Defence Forces. We should not be spending €15 million on advertising to recruit but to retain what we have, namely, very good experienced soldiers. It was indicated in the White Paper that we would keep the number in the Defence Forces at 9,500. Currently, they are only at 8,900; therefore, that suggestion would help in that regard.

Another issue that concerns me greatly is that some soldiers are in receipt of family income supplement. I have said previously that any person who puts on the Irish uniform should never have to rely on the receipt of family income supplement.

Hear, hear.

It is just not right. Will the Leader ask the Minister of State at the Department of Defence to come to the House to discuss these issues? It has been said constantly that we are waiting for the pay commission to release its report, but that will not be enough.

No matter what the report states, soldiers are still going to be the lowest-paid public servants. Therefore, we need a proper discussion on this. Retired sergeant major Noel O'Callaghan has held numerous parades and protests. He has called for respect and loyalty. He has been very respectful and loyal to his country. We should show the same to our soldiers. The Minister of State at the Department of Defence should come to the House and have that discussion.