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Seanad
‹ An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Defence Forces pay commission report

Summary

Senator Craughwell pressed for the long-delayed Public Service Pay Commission report on Defence Forces pay to be released and sought a debate or a Taoiseach’s appearance. The Chair repeatedly ruled him out of time and eventually put the amendment, which he did not successfully press.

I have spoken many times about the Public Service Pay Commission report on the Defence Forces but I have reached the end of my tether. The Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces, who has no control over public service pay, but who is doing his best to lead his charge, wrote on 20 June 2019 to his charge, that is, to all members of the Defence Forces. He said:

On the 31st of May I informed you that the Public Service Pay Commission report on the Defence Forces would be published in the coming weeks. It is now most likely that the report will be presented to Cabinet for approval next Tuesday, the 25th of June. The report will be made available to all members of the DF at the earliest opportunity after that and its contents and recommendations will need to be studied in detail. It is my intention with the General staff to visit the majority of Barracks and installations after the publication of the report.

Appropriate remuneration and conditions of service for all service personnel are fundamental priorities for the General Staff.

The representative bodies were told they had to meet the Department of Defence to hear the content of the Public Service Pay Commission's report. Several times over the last month and a half or so, they were told they needed to come in to hear the outcome of the report and yet on each occasion they were told that it would be the following week. Yesterday, the Taoiseach told the Dáil that it was never the intention to release the Public Service Pay Commission report. This has gone beyond a joke. Yesterday, members of the Judiciary received a €12,000 a year pay rise and I do not begrudge them their pay rise. Our Defence Forces are the most loyal citizens of the State and the only citizens of the State who sign away their right to take industrial action and defend this State and yet we treat them like this. Every year Ministers and Taoisigh laud the founders and defenders of this State such as Padraig Pearse, Thomas McDonagh, etc. Maybe it is time we recognised those who gave their life in the service of this State. I intend to read into the record the names of every member of the Defence Forces who has died in overseas service.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

The Senator will not have the time.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Senator Craughwell has 15 seconds to do it.

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Colonel Justin McCarthy; Lieutenant Kevin Gleeson; Sergeant Hugh Gaynor; Corporal Peter Kelly; Corporal Liam Dougan; Private Matthew Farrell; Trooper Thomas Fennell; Trooper Anthony Browne; Private Michael McGuinn; Private Gerard Killeen; Private Patrick Davis; Corporal Liam Kelly; Corporal Luke Kelly-----

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Senator Craughwell is over time.

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I beg the Cathaoirleach's indulgence on this.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I am not sure that reading the names of these noble gentlemen or ladies into the record will achieve anything or is relevant to the Order of Business.

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What it achieves, as far as I am concerned, is it brings home the fact that the men and women who serve this country are prepared to give their lives on a daily basis for whatever duty they are assigned. They never question it. They cannot march up to the gates tomorrow morning, withdraw their service or turn around and say to the-----

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

The Senator can call for a debate on the issue.

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I am sick of calling for debates.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

The Senator has used his four minutes.

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The Cathaoirleach is an extremely generous and decent man.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

He should not test my generosity. I have to rule on the matter.

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The Taoiseach made a statement in the Dáil yesterday. How many times will he push back the report of the Public Service Pay Commission? How many times will the Government tell these struggling families it will deliver the pay commission's findings next week, the week after or not at all?

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

With respect, the Senator is almost two minutes over his time. I am trying to be fair. I ask him to resume his seat.

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I want the Taoiseach to come to this Chamber and explain what it is about the Defences Forces that makes him unwilling under any circumstances to give them their just rewards.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Please resume your seat, Senator.

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A Chathaoirligh, please do not ask me to resume my seat.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I rarely rise but I have to be fair, as I believe I am to most people. The Senator has exceeded his speaking time by more than two minutes. I ask him to respect due process in the House and resume his seat.

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I have been disciplined all my life. I have always obeyed the rules but somebody somewhere has to disobey.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Will you resume your seat?

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Senator Craughwell is looking for a headline.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I cannot tolerate this sort of belligerence. I will suspend the House for ten minutes to reflect on this matter.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

To move on, I call Senator Conway-Walsh.

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The Cathaoirleach asked me-----

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I know Senator Craughwell is looking for a headline. I gave him five minutes and-----

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Ged Nash Senator Gerald Nash Labour Party

The Senator wishes to make a proposal.

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We know that the Government has had the report of the Public Service Pay Commission for more than six weeks. There is no reason for the report not to have been released to the men and women who are depending on it.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

The Senator may call for a debate on the matter, but I cannot prolong the Order of Business.

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I am proposing-----

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

The Senator should be very brief.

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-----that no business take place in the House today until the Taoiseach, who is also the Minister for Defence, comes to the House to explain the delay in publishing the report. I ask all Members to support the amendment.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

The Senator will have the option to vote against the acceptance of the Order of Business if he so desires. That is his prerogative. However, I cannot allow him to stay on his feet because there are another 11 speakers and the Senator is depriving them of their speaking time. The Order of Business must finish by 12.45 p.m.

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Is my proposal clear? It is that no business take place in this House today until the Taoiseach comes to the House to explain the impediment to releasing the Public Service Pay Commission report on Defence Forces pay.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Is the Senator proposing an amendment to the Order of Business?

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Ged Nash Senator Gerald Nash Labour Party

The Senator should amend his proposal that the House not take any other business.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

It is too extreme.

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Ged Nash Senator Gerald Nash Labour Party

If he were to propose that we take statements or have a debate on the issue later today, I would be happy to support it-----

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

Yes, exactly.

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Ged Nash Senator Gerald Nash Labour Party

-----but we have other important business to deal with today.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Senator Craughwell is making two proposals. One is that the Taoiseach come to the House, which may not be easy to achieve, and the other is that the Minister for Defence come to the House.

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I am inclined to agree with Senator Nash.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I ask the Senator to briefly make his proposal.

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I propose an amendment to the Order of Business, that the Taoiseach come to the House to explain why the Public Service Pay Commission report has not been released to the Defence Forces.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

That is clear. I ask the Senator to resume his seat. I call Senator Conway-Walsh.

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