Order of Business replies
The Leader responded to the earlier tributes, defended the consultation committee and the indicative schedule, and addressed the various topics raised: Moneypoint, Leyden’s documentary complaint, the sugar tax, Rhona Cullinan’s award, SUSI, and the upcoming Brexit-related meeting. He also confirmed work on the Judicial Appointments Commission Bill.
I thank the 16 Senators who contributed on the Order of Business. I join with Senators Boyhan, Horkan, Ardagh and others who spoke on the tragic death this morning of former councillor John Bailey. I had the pleasure of knowing him as an elected politician, but also as a member of Cumann Lúthchleas Gael.
He was an extraordinary man, dedicated to his community, his club, Cuala, and his family. I offer our deepest sympathies to his wife Angela and his daughters. The tributes paid to him this afternoon are justified and well deserved. He was an extraordinary person, a man who loved life and who was committed to his family, his local community, the GAA and politics. His maxim was to make life better for people. We sympathise with his family.
Senators Ardagh and Bacik raised the issue of the redress scheme and the decision yesterday of Mr. Justice Iarfhlaith O'Neill. I join with the Taoiseach in welcoming that decision and I welcome the Taoiseach's apology today to all victims. As the Taoiseach said in the Dáil, the process should have been in place before 1992 to record an allegation of abuse. The Taoiseach also told the Dáil the Government proposes to amend and reopen the scheme in a way that will be responsive to Mr. Justice O'Neill's decision. The State has a responsibility to protect children who are abused. The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy McHugh, will make a statement on the matter in the Dáil tomorrow.
I draw the attention of Senator Ardagh to the decision in 1998 of the then Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Micheál Martin, to take the Louise O'Keeffe case to the Supreme Court. I ask the Senator to read the Supreme Court judgment in that case. It is important that we welcome the Senator's U-turn here today and that of Deputy Micheál Martin, who, as Minister at the time, could have said "No" in 1998 but he did not. I call on him to explain why he did not do so. The Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, has the capacity to say "No" to a case. I commend the bravery of Louise O'Keeffe and I thank her for her courage. We welcome the decision of Mr. Justice O'Neill. What is important now is that we get justice for the young people, now adults, who were abused and that the scheme is reopened. I welcome that the Minister, Deputy McHugh, will make a statement on the matter in the Dáil tomorrow.
Senators Ardagh and Murnane O'Connor raised the issue of the Central Bank levy. The rate recommended by the Central Bank is half the rate of the levy applicable to the high street banks, to reflect the unique contribution that the credit union movement makes in our local communities. I understand the questions posed by both Members this afternoon. I was a member of the credit union supervisory committee of my local credit union. I recognise the importance and value of credit unions and I commend all the volunteers and staff who do great work in our local communities and who work with people of all ages and gender in very difficult and, sometimes, fraught situations. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, was before the finance committee last week, where there was a very informed debate on the matter. I hope that the levy will be reviewed in time.
Senator Ardagh also raised the issue of the environment and the high nitrogen dioxide levels and I am happy to have the Minister come to the House on that matter. Senators Ó Donnghaile, Feighan, McDowell, Conway-Walsh and Bacik raised the issue of Brexit and future relations on our island. It is an important conversation that we need to have and I am happy to provide time in the House. The suggestion from Senator McDowell regarding the establishment of a future relations in Ireland committee is one I wholeheartedly embrace and support. This House has done the State a huge service in terms of the provision of a Brexit committee, the future of which will be before the Seanad Committee on Procedure and Privileges, CPP, for decision later today. The points raised by all Members of the House are ones that we need to reflect upon. For any candidate of Government or political office to seek to use this country as a leverage to gain support or political advantage is irresponsible and reprehensible. I concur with Senator McDowell in that regard. There is need for a conversation around future relations on our island, while at the same time respecting both traditions. I have not listened to or read the James Nesbitt interview, so I cannot comment on it. As I said, I am happy to have the Brexit and future relations in Ireland debate in due course. The suggestion made by Senator McDowell is one that the Seanad CPP could examine. It deserves consideration. There are a number of committees dealing with the Good Friday Agreement, including the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly.
If I may make a suggestion, such a committee could be a joint endeavour of the Upper and Lower House. This would give it the significance of an Oireachtas joint committee. If that is not to be, this House should certainly consider going it alone.
Senator Norris raised the issue of the Dublin Gay Theatre Festival. I concur with his remarks regarding the reduction of the grant. I have received the email from Brian Merriman and I hope to meet with him. The points made by Senator Norris are valid and I support them.
Senators Norris and Craughwell have made comments regarding the ordering of the business of the House. With regard to Commencement matters, the Seanad Public Consultation Committee, which the Leas-Chathaoirleach chairs, was anxious to complete a number of pieces of work before the summer recess. One of these was on Senator Colette Kelleher's proposal regarding the Traveller community. We have facilitated a number of very important debates at that committee. A decision was taken between the committee, others, and myself as Leader to hold a meeting this morning from 10 a.m. to 2.30 p.m. This decision was not made to facilitate any group or grouping within society, but to facilitate the Seanad Public Consultation Committee, which we have also done at other times.
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They were indeed. The proposal was agreed by the House and was also agreed at a meeting of the group leaders and Whips. I will not apologise in any way for holding a meeting of the Seanad Public Consultation Committee. With regard to the points made by Senator Craughwell, I apologise to the Leas-Chathaoirleach because I am going to use my phone to highlight and indicate a number of things. First, the schedule as outlined was agreed at the meeting of group leaders. As Members will know, the schedule is indicative and is open to change in respect of times. Second, it was agreed that we would run all debates one after the other in order to use the time of Ministers, Members, officials, and members of staff of the House to the greatest benefit. As Senator Horkan said, this allows for better flow between debates. Senator Craughwell has not proposed anything but has said that he will oppose the Order of Business. If he were to propose to set times for each debate or stage of legislation, he would be proposing to guillotine them. If time were to run over on any particular legislation, debate would be curtailed.
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That is not at all the case.
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The import of what the Senator is suggesting is just that. If a debate were to run short, his proposal would result in a break and the House suspending.
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On a point of order, if the Leader is suggesting that Ministers and their staff are going to be sitting on standby in the anteroom waiting for the end of a debate so that they can-----
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-----pop in and allow it to continue on-----
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The Leader should come off it.
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This just proves that the Senator does not know what he is talking about. With regard to the Dáil-----
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The Senator is correct in that indicative times are listed for items in the Dáil from 1 p.m. to 5.35 p.m., but times for Government business from 5.35 p.m. onwards are not. Senator Horkan is 100% correct. I will make a copy of the schedule available to all Members of the House. From 5.35 p.m. the following items are set for discussion: the CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019, the Redress for Women Resident in Certain Institutions (Amendment) Bill 2019, the Coroners (Amendment) Bill 2018, the Qualifications and Quality Assurance (Education and Training) (Amendment) Bill 2018, and the Criminal Justice (International Co-operation) Bill 2019. No times are indicated for any of these.
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It is the madcap race to the end of the season.
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When the Senator is wrong, he should just admit it. With regard to the point made by Senator Horkan, to be fair, no times are given for Government business.
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This has only happened in the last week.
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I know the Senator is still learning-----
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As Senator Horkan and, I hope, Senator Ardagh and others will know, we try to be collegial in setting the business.
There are occasions on which we try to allocate times because it suits the debate to so do. However, that does not always fit with the flow of proceedings and latitude must be allowed in that regard. To accuse people of being unprofessional is somewhat irresponsible, and I ask the Senator to withdraw that remark because it is unfair to the Members and others who try to put the schedule together.
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I did not accuse the Leader of being unprofessional.
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Senators Conway and Devine raised the important issue of Moneypoint. I would be happy to have the Minister come to the House on the matter.
I did not see the television programme broadcast last night to which Senator Leyden referred. I am unsure whether the House can do anything on this issue as it is not a matter for the House per se. It might be more expeditious for the Senator to table a Commencement matter on the issue.
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I will watch the second part of the programme tonight.
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That may be the Senator's intention, but we are not going to have a debate about it now. The Leader to respond without interruption.
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I recommend that the Leader watch the programme this evening.
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It could have been recorded for the Leader.
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I will buy the popcorn if Senator Leyden provides the television. I point out to Senator Devine that my hearing is somewhat fallible today. I did not hear the name of the group that was formed. As it is a financial matter, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, will be happy to come to the House on it in due course.
Senator Noone raised the important issue of the sugar tax and the importance of tackling the issue of obesity.
I join Senator Murnane O'Connor in congratulating Rhona Cullinan on her award. I agree with the Senator regarding the issues in respect of the SUSI grant. It is a very stressful time for applicants and their families, and every effort should be made to make the application process easy for people and to work with them in that regard.
I commend Senator Colm Burke on the passage of his Civil Law (Presumption of Death) Bill 2016 last week. He raised a point connected with the Bill and I am happy to have the Minister come to the House in that regard.
I have addressed the points raised by Senator McDowell in regard to the future-----