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Seanad
‹ An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Mother and Baby Homes Bill rushed

Summary

Senators McDowell, Warfield, Sherlock and Gavan object to rushing the Bill through all stages and seek only Committee Stage today. They argue the legislation needs proper scrutiny and time for the many amendments.

First, I put on record that the leader of my group, Senator Boyhan, received the Order of Business for today at 10.19 a.m. It is not good enough that we should receive the proposed Order of Business so late in the day, with effectively 11 minutes to go before the Chamber assembled.

Second, I propose an amendment to the Order of Business, as proposed by the Leader, to provide that the words "and Remaining Stages" in respect of the Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020 would be deleted from the Order of Business. In other words, I am proposing that only Committee Stage should proceed today. I understand that Senator Boyhan will second the amendment.

Third, the House has been told that the urgency of this matter arises from the fact that the commission will stand dissolved on 30 October and therefore arrangements in respect of its documentation would have to be made while it is still in existence. As I understand it, the situation is that the commission is now in a position to deliver its final report.

The commission has a separate report based on the evidence it received from people who appeared before the confidential committee. The commission is anxious to deliver its final report by 30 October but it will need time. It cannot conclude its business before 30 October and will need an extension, partly because staff have been forced by the circumstances of the Covid emergency to work from home. There is a lot of administrative work in respect of the records of the commission that needs to be completed and will not be completed by 30 October. Therefore, it follows that the supposed urgency in respect of passing this legislation is unfounded because the commission needs and wants extra time. It should be given that extra time. Its final report will be out by 30 October, as I understand it and, depending on what this House does in respect of it, the confidential report will follow very quickly. However, the administrative work associated with dealing with all the records and preparing them to meet whatever legal requirements exist will take further time. We need extra time. The commission needs extra time. It is bogus to suggest that there is a hurry or an emergency requiring the passage of this legislation. I ask the Leader, therefore, to accept the amendment I am proposing and to proceed today only with Committee Stage.

Comment on this

I was planning to propose an amendment to the Order of Business to reflect what Senator McDowell has just outlined. Perhaps he might allow us to second his proposal to take only Committee Stage today.

I remind the Leader of what she said on Thursday, 10 September:

I hear Members very loudly and clearly. I recall how standing here some six weeks ago I told the House that we would not do all Stages of Bills again and I find myself in a very uncomfortable position this week of having to ask Members to do it today. I give my solemn word today that except in the event of an emergency, [...] I will not accede to having all Stages of a Bill on a same day sitting in future. There is a caveat, we must find an agreement this afternoon at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges on how we run and order our business.

A commitment was given, however, that we would not railroad through all Stages and disrespect the process of this House. These Houses work best when the Government and Oireachtas work together and when all Stages are respected in the Seanad. The Oireachtas Library and Research Service has presented a very helpful infographic on the Stages of the legislation, laying out the process for all Members.

In my Second Stage contribution, I referred to the unprecedented engagement on this Bill with Members of House and other representatives. There is no doubt that the public is watching. It does not reflect well on this House if we concentrate all our critical examination into a few hours. Sinn Féin has submitted detailed amendments for Committee Stage and this will be the first opportunity to put them to the Minister. Many of the amendments reflect the deep alarm and concern of survivors of mother and baby homes over the direction and speed, in particular, of this Bill. I would like the Minister to have had more time to consider our amendments and determine whether he could compromise and come up with solutions of his own. The entire point of a Report Stage sitting is that Seanadóirí, the Minister and his officials can consider all amendments, even those defeated, in the period leading up to it. It has happened before that Ministers have considered Committee Stage amendments that were defeated and brought forward their own amendments. Without any period of reflection and engagement between Committee Stage and Report Stage, there is no chance at all of this happening. I appeal to Members, even those who may have supported the Bill this week, to allow time so we can fully listen and consider the concerns of the women and other survivors, who have themselves waited for so many years to get to this point. I appeal to the humanity of the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, so he may do the right thing by the women and other survivors.

Comment on this

On behalf of the Labour Party, I indicate our support for the amendment to the Order of Business proposed by Senator McDowell. We, too, believe it is unnecessary and unjust to rush through this legislation today. I do not need to tell his House how important it is. As we all know, it has generated very intense personal interest. It concerns people's lives. As Senator Warfield said, we need time to listen and to consider the 38 amendments tabled, some of which are very detailed and substantial. We very much hope that the proposed amendment to the Order of Business will be accepted today.

The other issue I wish to raise concerns the schools building programme of the Department of Education and Skills. I wish to express my extreme frustration over the tortuous and unnecessarily protracted process involved in getting some schools built. I am dealing with the two schools at present. The first is Pelletstown Educate Together National School, Dublin 15. It is only a new school. When it was established, children were educated in a basement in their first year. In the second year, children had to be bussed to another school. There was no planning for a proper school building when the project was announced. It is a disgrace that the Department establishes schools but puts in place no proper buildings.

The second school I am dealing with is Bunscoil Coláiste Mhuire, Parnell Square. This is a school that had to move into temporary accommodation almost 30 years ago. Ten years ago, a commitment was made regarding a new school building. Management has been waiting ten years for a new school. It is absolutely shameful that the Department has dragged its heels despite the tremendous efforts of the príomhoide, the families, students and teachers. There is a wonderful school community but it is really up against the odds. There is plaster falling down from the ceilings. The playground is the car park for the teachers. Two major issues arise. First, the Department is wasting valuable money, amounting to €300,000 per year, on rent to a landlord when it could be used to build a school. Almost €3 million has been spent on rent over the past ten years, which is one third of the cost of the school. Second, at every stage of the building process an enormous campaign had to be launched to get the Government to act. This is clientelism at its worst. The Department needs to put in place a smooth, streamlined system for building schools. We should not have to have a campaign at every stage of delivery.

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