As I explained previously, for the benefit of Members, I have asked party Whips to ask colleagues about the rota and to decide which parties will speak, because I do not want, for example, 19 Fianna Fáil Senators showing up at the start of the Order of Business and the same with Fine Gael Senators. We cannot have a full Chamber. There is a rota and the Whips submit the names to the Chair, and they are put in order. I would ask that when Members are listed in order that they would be in for-----

On a point of order, some of us are not part of a political grouping at the moment, and there does seem to be apartheid from the Chair regarding some of us.

No. Sorry, Senator-----

Gabh mo leithscéal, I am entitled to make a point of order-----

Can I clarify a point-----

This is not the first time-----

The Senator's name was on the list.

Some of us have been here since the beginning of the Order of Business to facilitate a quorum, and have been here since half past the hour, and we were not able to get in. I do not know how the system is operated. I am not having a row with the Cathaoirleach, but there is apartheid against some of us in respect of the operation of procedure, which is grossly unfair.

For the benefit of Senator Buttimer, his name has been submitted by the Fine Gael Whip and he is fifth on the list. I have put him in the order that I received the request. Other Senators were put in ahead of Senator Buttimer and have arrived in late. I ask Senators to arrive at the start of the Order of Business if they are in line to speak, but I will circulate the email that I received from the Fine Gael Whip-----

Somebody submitted it. Senator Buttimer might wish to take the issue up with the Fine Gael Party. There is no apartheid going on in this House-----

I have been here since 10.30 a.m. and-----

I ask Senator Buttimer-----

-----and I raised my hand at 10.30 a.m. to speak. I am not having a row with the Cathaoirleach, but there needs to be an element of fairness in the allocation of speaking time. I will raise the issue again when I get to speak. I would like to make the point that it is not personal.

The Senator has accused the Chair of apartheid in this House.

Well I have been here since 10.30 a.m.-----

I ask the Senator to withdraw-----

I withdraw the remark.

I will circulate the email that I received from the Fine Gael Whip, and Senator Buttimer is fifth on the list. That is the system that we have operated because of Covid-19, and I know that the old system was different, whereby Members would come in, raise their hands and be taken in that order. That is not the system we are currently operating because of Covid-19. I have made that clear, week in, week out. I have asked Whips to send in the list. I know that Members arrive in and then they seem to be taken ahead of others, but that is because we are operating a new system.

On a point of order, that does not apply. That does not apply to all the ways we operate in this House. On the issue of list to which the Cathaoirleach is referring regarding the Order of Business and other debates, whether they concern legislation, or statements, there is no uniformity of application from the Cathaoirleach regarding the names that are submitted. That is the point that I am making. I am not having a row with the Cathaoirleach, and I apologise if he has taken it personally, because it was not meant that way. However, there is an inconsistency in the use of a system of names for the allocation of speaking slots. That is the point I am making. I was not referring to the Cathaoirleach, and I apologise if he thinks I was, because I was not. However, one could be here for a debate on a given day, waiting to get in and not able to get in, even though one's name has been submitted. There are a number of lists being operated by those in the chair that the Cathaoirleach occupies, and the system is not fair to Members who come here in good faith. That is the point I am making; I am not just referring to what happened this morning, but I do take the Cathaoirleach's point. The reason that I am aggrieved relates to the point Senator Boyhan has made, which is that many of us have submitted our names, and have not been able to get in because there is a different list system in operation. That is the point I am making.

That is the point I am making. Can you see it from my perspective, a Chathaoirligh?

I hear what Senator Buttimer is saying.

Okay.

As far as I am concerned, on any Order of Business we have ever had, nobody has been excluded.

I am not referring just to the Order of Business, a Chathaoirligh. It is frustrating and annoying to many of us who are trying our best to make contributions to business and statements of the House, that we cannot get in.

If I could just make this point to Senator Buttimer, his name is on the list.

I appreciate that.

The fact that he was unaware that his name was on the list is not my fault.

I was not referring-----

We are operating a system-----

A Chathaoirligh-----

Senator Buttimer should let me finish.

Sure, absolutely.

We have operated a system due to Covid-19 where people are asked to submit names. This is for the safety of everyone in the House. Senator Buttimer's name is on the list today. His name will be called, as will everybody else. I know people watch other Members come in and wonder why they are called to speak ahead of them. That is because we are operating this particular system. Under the old system, people would just come in and be taken in the order in which they arrived, as best we could.

That is not my point, a Chathaoirligh. I have no issue with that. I accept that-----

That was the point Senator Buttimer started with.

Yes, but I am making-----

In regard to other issues-----

But, a Chathaoirligh, you are the custodian of the position of Cathaoirleach, and there is an element of unfairness, however it happens, where Members cannot make a contribution to debates on legislation but predominantly on statements. If we go back to last week, some of us had to either share a minute and a half or two minutes each, or we could not get in at all.

I thank Senator Buttimer.

I appreciate the element of Covid-19, but Senator Boyhan's fundamental point is right. We are the Upper House of a Parliament and we need to look at how we can ensure that the way we do business is changed to adopt to the new way of doing things in a Covid-19 world, but it is unfair. I am sorry that I am aggrieved about it. Many of us are trying to make an effort to contribute and we cannot get in. That is the point I am making.

I thank Senator Buttimer.

I apologise if you think I am having a go at you, a Chathaoirligh. I am not having a go at you at all. It is the system I am having a go at.

Senator Buttimer started off by saying there was a system of apartheid.

You are missing the point.

I am sorry. Could I just make the point?

Yes.

Senator Buttimer started off saying there was a system of apartheid. He said he had indicated. His name is on the list. His name is in the Chair's rota, as agreed at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, CPP. The point he is raising regarding other Bills is before the CPP. That is a matter that will be decided at the CPP. It is an ongoing debate. As far as the Chair is concerned, in regard to the Order of Business, no Member, unless there was extreme urgency, has ever been refused. That is as far as I can remember. We are operating a fair system that has been agreed by all leaders. If Senator Buttimer has a particular grievance, he might get on to his Whip or the Leader-----

I do not have a Whip.

The Senator's party Whip sent in this list and his name is on the list. The fact that Senator Buttimer is unaware of it is not the Chair's issue. If he would like me to rectify it, then he needs to do that.

No, I will do it.

Regarding statements and Private Members' Bills, there is a difficulty because they are two-hour slots. Any proposals Senator Buttimer has, I suggest that he makes them to the House and through the Cathaoirleach's office if he wants to write. They are the issues.

Regarding the issue Senator Buttimer brought up on the Order of Business and that his name was indicated, he is aware of the system. His name is on the list. That is the system I am operating and I am doing it in a fair manner.

Do you want me to reply, a Chathaoirligh?

No. I am just making the point.