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Seanad
‹ An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Order of Business

Summary

The Leader set out the day’s schedule, and Senators welcomed the revised timetable, especially the added Palestine debate. Members then raised cybersecurity, SUSI grant rules, maternity services, forestry licences, rural transport, young people, housing, antigen testing, and the cyberattack’s impact on health services and State systems.

The Order of Business is No. a1, motion regarding the report of the Committee of Selection, to be taken on conclusion of the Order of Business, without debate; No. 1, Loan Guarantee Schemes Agreements (Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland) Bill 2021 - Second Stage, to be taken at 1.30 p.m. and to conclude at 3.15 p.m., with the opening contribution of the Minister not to exceed eight minutes, and all Senators not to exceed five minutes, and the Minister to be given not less than six minutes to reply to the debate; Private Members' business, No. 62, motion 8, regarding young people, to be taken at 3.30 p.m., with the time allocated to this debate not to exceed two hours; No. 1a, statements on the situation in the occupied Palestinian territory and Israel, to be taken at 6 p.m. or 15 minutes after the conclusion of No. 62, motion 8, whichever is the later, and to conclude after 90 minutes, with the time allocated to the Minister's opening remarks not to exceed ten minutes, all Senators not to exceed five minutes and the Minister to be given not less than ten minutes to reply to the debate; and No. 3, the Affordable Housing Bill 2021 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, to be taken at 7.45 p.m. or 15 minutes after the conclusion of No. 2, whichever is the later, and, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, to adjourn at 9.45 p.m. or immediately before the Minister is called upon to close the debate, whichever is the earlier, with the time allocated to the Minister's opening remarks not to exceed ten minutes, group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and all other Senators not to exceed five minutes.

Comment on this

I agree with the Order of Business. I thank the Leader for reacting so quickly and timely to organise a debate today on Palestine, Israel and the occupied territories. Many of us in this House will welcome the opportunity to say what we feel and think about the situation.

I commend the Minister for Foreign Affairs on his performance at the meeting of the UN Security Council and his strong comments. It is a shame that the US Administration was not as strong in its response. I condemn utterly the killing of what we know to date as 58 children in these recent attacks. It is appalling and disgusting. We, the international community, should collectively be really worried by the situation and make a strong call to action on all communities across the world.

I wish to again raise the ongoing restrictions at maternity hospitals. We were told last week that there were national guidelines and that partners would be allowed to be present for labour, including induction, for the birth, that there would be visitations afterwards, and that partners would be present for the really important 20-week anomaly scan. We were told that 14 of the 19 maternity units or hospitals were in compliance with national guidelines but my information is that that is not correct. Hospitals are taking a very localised view of what labour means and when exactly the partner can attend. Fathers and partners are still being left sitting in their cars waiting for a call to come in and mums are in considerable distress because of this situation. It is my information that the Limerick hospital is not providing the 20-week scan to all mums and provides a scan only for at-risk pregnancies, as it determines. It is 2021 and that is unacceptable. Every mother and her baby or babies are entitled to an anomaly scan, which is an essential part of the pregnancy process.

I have seen a letter that Saolta sent to a woman for University Hospital Galway, where it said that it cannot conduct a full anomaly scan, would limit the appointment to 15 minutes due to social distancing requirements and, therefore, would give a partial anomaly scan. In that case one may as well not give a scan at all. One needs more than 15 minutes to do a scan, as anyone who has been through this will testify. Basically, hospitals are fudging the numbers and saying that they conduct anomaly scans for all women when they give only a half-baked scan. They then deny doing so but I have seen it in black and white in a letter that a woman received. I ask that the Leader uses the strength of her office to get an urgent update from the HSE and the Department of Health on the national guidelines, what exactly is meant by "labour" and if we can get a uniform approach across every hospital and unit as to what that means, and not have a localised approach.

I must note that five hospitals continue to be completely outside of national guidelines. They are nowhere near compliant with the guidelines on allowing partners to be present at almost any stage. That must be addressed with urgency.

The final issue I wish to raise is the ongoing debate about the menopause. It has been a fantastic national conversation. We need to see action. In that regard, I call on the Leader to organise a debate on women's health at the earliest possible opportunity. I ask that we get an update from the Minister on the women's health task force and the work it is doing not just on the menopause, but across all of the women's health issues that we have raised in this House, including fertility, IVF, maternity and endometriosis. There are many issues and we would welcome the opportunity to discuss them.

Comment on this

I welcome the amendment to the Order of Business to provide for a debate on the Palestine situation. I will not say anything more about it now.

In raising the following issue, I am not engaging in being wise after the event. The hacking of the HSE computer system is very serious. The suggestion that other State computer systems are equally vulnerable is frightening, to say the least. One only has to think of the possibility of the social welfare systems and those of the Department of Finance and various other places being interfered with by such hackers to see how serious the situation is. Again, without attempting to be wise after the event, we have had hints in the last year that HSE ICT systems were, to put it charitably, clunky and difficult to adapt to emergency situations. I am conscious of the fact, going back to the time I was in government, that the public sector has a difficulty sometimes in commissioning ICT expertise and systems, and is sometimes the victim of overzealous and overpriced proposals. It is weak in that respect.

However, we now live in a society where our dependence on these systems is growing. It is all very well for people to come into this House and talk about climate change and the rest of it, but thinking about it, as we move towards the use of electric cars, electric transport and no solid fuel, all of these things are driving us directly towards a situation where, for instance, electricity will be the absolute lifeline to all of us in the sense that water was to our ancestors. I must be guaranteed that cybersecurity is taken very seriously. We must have guarantees that there are back-up systems and internal firewalls in place, and that the matter is taken as seriously as anything else in the community - as seriously, for instance, as the pandemic. The damage that can be done to us by repeated hacking from China, North Korea, Russia or wherever these people are free to operate with impunity is huge.

I ask the Leader to arrange for a Minister with overall responsibility - perhaps the Minister with responsibility for the public service - to come in here and tell us clearly and in a properly organised way precisely what steps the Government is taking to protect us from calamities. In my view, this is only the first shot in a war and I do not know whether we have any defences in this war or whether we have done anything seriously to counter this threat.

Comment on this

I am sure many Senators have been contacted by students or their parents and families about the SUSI grant and the pandemic unemployment payment, PUP. Parents and students alike who were close to the threshold limit are being told they no longer qualify for the SUSI grant because they accepted the PUP. I raised this issue last year and asked that the Minister not allow it to happen. In the period since, the Minister has spoken about SUSI a number of times. There has even been a public consultation on SUSI reform. However, somehow he did not see fit to stop students, who have had no drastic change in circumstances, be pushed beyond the threshold for grants simply for accepting the pandemic unemployment payment issued to them by this Government, which they were entitled to take.

I do not understand how or why their PUP cannot be disregarded for the purpose of assessing income, as per their other summer or Christmas earnings. I ask that the Minister come in and we have a conversation about it. I do not believe it is acceptable that students are being pushed out of SUSI grants this year.

I wish to briefly bring up the topic of eating disorders. HSE figures show that the number of referrals for eating disorders has increased 66% since March 2020. That is an enormous increase with which the service is in no way able to cope. The services were underfunded and unable to cope long before Covid-19, quite frankly.

I am particularly concerned about eating disorders in young people. In our health service, young people end up falling between cracks and into the wrong services. Indeed, as we saw recently, a teenage girl spent nine weeks in the paediatric unit of Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital. I will also point out that there are no specialist eating disorder beds in the midlands or the Louth-Meath mental health services.

We need to ensure that intensive early interventions are available throughout the country. An audit of the entire eating disorder system is needed. The provision of beds and inpatient services is not sufficient. An eating disorder is a deeply complex mental illness with a high mortality rate. The nature of social media, and many traditional media, means there is an idolisation of a particular type of body, which is often unhealthy. There is, therefore, also a responsibility on social media companies to play their part. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister into the House for a debate on eating disorders and funding of same.

I will take a moment to flag that 17 May is International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia, which celebrates LGBTQIA+ people globally and raises awareness to combat discrimination. All LGBTQIA+ people around the world deserve to be treated with respect and dignity and to be able to live free from discrimination, violence and persecution.

In Ireland, we pride ourselves on having progressive laws that protect LGBTQIA+ people. We are considered a beacon internationally. We lead by example but we must also look at how we can improve things here. In particular, we need equal rights for families. Internationally, we must be key players in education, fighting prejudice, discrimination and violence. Transgender rights are human rights; transphobia can get into the sea, and then some. I would like to take a moment to wish happy international day against homophobia, biphobia, interphobia and transphobia to my friends, family and fellow LGBTQIA+ parliamentarians.

Comment on this

I am practically tearing my hair out as, I know, is Senator Chambers, about the inequality in our healthcare services around the country. Time and time again, we are told that things are opening up for women in maternal healthcare and they simply are not. We are not seeing it on the ground. We should not have to take to Instagram, which I have seen countless women do, or Twitter and Facebook to shout for our own rights. It should be a given that there is transparency within our healthcare system with regard to maternity services. I call on the Minister and also the HSE to provide that guidance and reassurance to everyone.

Since I spoke about the issue of the menopause last Tuesday, little did I know that it was going to dominate the airwaves for almost another week after and will probably continue to do so. That is really welcome but it has also been quite an emotional week for an awful lot of women, and indeed, their partners. Several women as young as 30 have contacted me to talk about early menopause. They do not want to be forgotten in the conversation when we speak about how this is perhaps an issue for older women. Let us, therefore, continue that conversation. I also welcome the comments from the Taoiseach around this issue. There really is an opportunity now to have it placed front and centre when it comes to the women's health task force this year and into the future.

I also thank the GPs who have reached out to tell us what will support them in the services they provide. We also need to talk about employers, however. We need to make sure this is an equal Ireland for every woman so that no matter where they work or who their doctor is, they are getting the exact same information and care.

I agree with Senator McDowell about cybersecurity. I will also point out that as we are moving forward to a greener Ireland, it is not just electricity on which we are relying. Much of what we are doing is also ensuring that people have retrofitting in order that they do not need to use as much electricity, and that we also have other forms of transport. It is a small point but not everything will be going electric.

We need to invest in cybersecurity, as the last few days have proven. We are moving to a more digitised society, undoubtedly, and putting in the necessary supports is really important.

Comment on this

I also welcome the amendment to today's Order of Business to include statements on the situation in Palestine. Like Senator McDowell, I want to refer to the weekend's cyberattack which was a very serious development. Systems are under attack all of the time but this was a successful attack, at least in terms of breaking through. It is possibly the most significant cyberattack on the Irish State and prompts questions about the robustness of the State's cybersecurity. This goes right to the heart of data and systems security, not to mention the impact it has had on services.

For years now Sinn Féin has included in its alternative budgets the need to significantly invest in improving and modernising ICT systems within the broader health sector. It is for the Garda National Cyber Crime Bureau, GNCCB, to pursue the criminal element but there is a need for this to have minimal impact on health services as we move ahead. Some hospitals had to cancel many services and clinics and there will be significant ongoing disruption, potentially for a number of days or weeks, if not months. Clarity is needed from the HSE on the timing of the reopening of services and the Government must ensure that any additional supports or protections needed are resourced now. We need to know how this happened, the source of the attack, how the systems were impacted and how it can be prevented from happening again. There is a need to focus on ensuring that robust security is in place to fully protect the system and prevent future attacks like this from being successful. There must be a review of the HSE's and the State's cyber defences. It is equally important that services resume as quickly as possible. Healthcare workers are facing a difficult enough situation already with Covid-19 and waiting lists and further disruption will create a very challenging environment.

We need to consider an enhanced role for the Defence Forces in cybersecurity. Earlier this year my party colleagues, Deputies Brady and Clarke, made a comprehensive submission to the Commission on the Defence Forces which included an extensive set of recommendations on the expansion and enhancement of the capacity of the Defence Forces to defend the State against cyberattacks. The events of the last couple of days have illustrated the importance of this beyond any doubt.

There is a definitive need to develop the technology and software systems necessary to reduce our dependency on external systems. Sinn Féin believes that the Government must identify the key strategic, technical and operational procedures required to develop our capacity to act independently of external partners. Adequate training also needs to be introduced in the field of cybersecurity in order to enhance and maintain highly effective, professional staff in the field. The sustainability of any cybersecurity system will depend on adequate investment in this area. The role of a revamped, cutting-edge Defence Forces cyber unit is critical in preventing cyberattacks but this can only happen if the State has the ability to recruit and retain the necessary personnel. This is a cross-cutting issue and we should have statements in this House on it as soon as possible, particularly on the next steps and the longer-term strategic response.

Comment on this

I thank the Leader for revising today's schedule to allow us to debate the situation in Palestine, which means so much to me. I am completely and utterly exhausted from talking about what is going on. It is just soul-destroying and if I am feeling like that, what must it be like for the people of Palestine? The situation is just horrendous.

I raised the issue as a Commencement matter this morning. I ask that the Minister, during the course of this evening's debate, give us an understanding of the legal advice the Government has received from the Attorney General and go into some detail on it, if possible. I would really like to hear about that tonight. We have already heard legal opinion from Senator McDowell, Professor Takis Tridimas and Professor James Crawford so if it is possible, I would like to hear the opinion of the Attorney General this evening.

In the time remaining, I would like to read a poem about what life is like for the people of Gaza. This poem was first published in 2017 but reflects what is going on at this very moment in Gaza. I want the Government parties to hear what it is like.

We all have our busy lives but we must bring down to brass tacks what is going on. I ask the Cathaoirleach to allow me to read a poem into the record. It is "Running Orders" by Lena Khalaf Tuffaha.

They call us now.Before they drop the bombs.The phone ringsand someone who knows my first namecalls and says in perfect Arabic“This is David.”And in my stupor of sonic booms and glass shattering symphoniesstill smashing around in my headI think “Do I know any Davids in Gaza?”They call us now to sayRun.You have 58 seconds from the end of this message.Your house is next.They think of it as some kind ofwar time courtesy.It doesn’t matter thatthere is nowhere to run to.It means nothing that the borders are closedand your papers are worthlessand mark you only for a life sentencein this prison by the seaand the alleyways are narrowand there are more human livespacked one against the othermore than any other place on earthJust run.We aren’t trying to kill you.It doesn’t matter thatyou can’t call us back to tell usthe people we claim to want aren’t in your housethat there’s no one hereexcept you and your childrenwho were cheering for Argentinasharing the last loaf of bread for this weekcounting candles left in case the power goes out.It doesn’t matter that you have children.You live in the wrong placeand now is your chance to runto nowhere.It doesn’t matterthat 58 seconds isn’t long enoughto find your wedding albumor your son’s favorite blanketor your daughter’s almost completed college applicationor your shoesor to gather everyone in the house.It doesn’t matter what you had planned.It doesn’t matter who you areProve you’re human.Prove you stand on two legs.Run.

I think that says it all. It is absolutely devastating. Enough is enough. Condemnation is not enough anymore. We must do something. We have a Bill now. I really want to hear what the Attorney General's advice is, and why he says it is illegal, when we know this can go to the European courts. We can let it go to the EU courts and let it be argued there. I ask Ireland to lead on this and I ask the Government parties here today to please, please do something that is positive. We did it for apartheid South Africa and we can do it now today.

Comment on this

I ask the Leader to organise a debate at the earliest opportunity on the forestry sector. With the passage of the Forestry (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2020 in October last year, we had all hoped it would address the inertia in the issuance of licences, especially for the felling of timber. Unfortunately, that has not happened. With the construction sector pretty much back in full swing, there is a shortage of timber. Licences are not being issued, timber is not being processed and, unfortunately, when there is a hold-up in supply, there is considerable demand and the price goes up. I am being told that since earlier this year the price of timber has gone up by 35%. This is a commodity and the price would normally fluctuate 5% either way, but when we take this into account on top of a housing crisis, and when nearly 35% of our house construction is now timber frame, it is a real crisis. I do not know what is required but we need an urgent debate in the House and we need to thrash out with the appropriate Minister some pathway to ensure that the felling of timber gets under way. There are issues with licencing for roadways, thinnings and plantations, but we are also way under the number of trees that need to be planted. We had a target last year of 8,000 ha to be planted but we planted some 2,500 ha. This is an ongoing issue but it is currently at a crisis point, with no sign of a resolution until such a time as we can get the licences issued, get the timber cut and into the mills to be processed. I am talking with sawmill managers and their agents daily. They tell me that they must dot across the country to try to get scraps of timber just to feed their mills. This is not good enough. It is an important indigenous sector.

We need to treat it as such and ensure that the laws and rules allow the industry to operate efficiently, although that is not in any way to take away from the climate change perspective, which recognises that we need to plant many more trees to sequester carbon.

Comment on this

I join Senators Chambers and Black in raising the situation in Palestine and look forward to hearing the comments of the Minister, Deputy Coveney, this evening. I have always believed that as long as there are five permanent members of the UN Security Council, issues such as this can never be truly resolved.

I ask the Leader to accommodate a debate on the issue of rural transport. As we know, the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021 is currently before the Dáil and will soon come before this House for an important debate on its passage. Its commitments include a target of net zero emissions by 2050 and a 51% reduction in emissions by the end of this decade. Actions for each sector will be detailed in the climate action plan, which will be updated annually.

Transport will be a key area, among others. Many urban dwellers have different options for getting from A to B. People in Dublin have the DART, the Luas and more comprehensive bus and cycle lanes, while there are plans in Galway for BusConnects and it also has greenways, some of which can be used by commuters. Options in rural Ireland, however, are limited and, where present, expensive. If we are serious about reducing car use and thereby emissions, rural transport will have to be examined to improve the public transport spines and to interconnect the local public transport systems that are in play. I ask that we have a debate on the issue of public transport. It will be key in respect of emissions reduction and have a practical benefit for all rural residents.

Comment on this

I thank the Leader for setting out the Order of Business and concur with other Senators on the revision to the schedule that has been made. The replacement of the debate on defence issues is important.

I look forward to the debate on Fine Gael's Private Members' motion on young people. It is a thought-provoking issue. All is not well in that area and I look forward to setting out a number of issues and sharing some information in respect of the Ombudsman for Children. I also welcome the debate on the Affordable Housing Bill 2021, which will be critical.

I call for a debate on dying, death and bereavement. Senators might recall that the final event in this House of the then Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, was to launch an amazing body of work, Finite Lives, by the former Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell. It was the biggest event I have experienced in my five years in the House. It was packed and there was much anticipation, about both Mr. Kenny's future and, more important, the issue at hand. The then Taoiseach told me he had chosen to make it his final official launch in the Houses of the Oireachtas. The report is a substantial body of work that raises many issues. We have all been touched by loved ones who have passed away. The report received a very significant endorsement from the Irish Hospice Foundation. Let us not reinvent the wheel but rather dust down this substantial work. It makes 16 substantial recommendations. I ask that at some point in the schedule, we make time for a debate on the content and recommendations of the report.

Comment on this

I join other Senators in welcoming the revision of the schedule to discuss issues in Palestine and thank Senator Black for sharing such a poignant poem. We have a seat on the UN Security Council and it has been recognised that we are doing good work on promoting de-escalation. As we know, however, words are not as strong as actions and much more needs to be done by the United Nations.

I wish to express my disappointment at the discussion and handling of the use of antigen testing in this country. We have been fighting a war against Covid for more than a year. This enemy operates by stealth. It entered our communities unnoticed and has wreaked havoc. Many have lost their lives and people continue to make enormous sacrifices. We will be living with Covid for many years and the scars will be enormous. Many have lost loved ones and we have missed out on things like going to funerals and visiting elderly residents so I commend everyone on pushing back this enemy. Over the past few weeks, I have been really disappointed by the approach we have taken to antigen testing and the diminishing of its role. I would go so far as to say that this approach is tone deaf. We were told that antigen testing was snake oil. Now we are being told that it has limited benefits in certain circumstances. To be clear, I am not saying that antigen testing is a silver bullet. I strongly endorse the advice we have been given, which is to follow clear guidelines on social distancing, handwashing, sneezing and cough etiquette, etc., but I also believe that antigen testing should be rolled out to every business and organisation that is willing to use it to encourage people to go about their business. Of course, people need to be educated on how to use antigen tests correctly but I do not see any downside. I do not see how offering this to people going to the hairdressers has a downside. We have all cherished the opportunity to go to the hairdressers and we know how busy they are. I am asking for antigen testing to be rolled out to all industries, institutions and colleges. Denmark accepts antigen testing for entry into the country yet here we are told that it has very little value. Think about it. The authorities in Denmark uses antigen testing to allow people to enter the country but we are not encouraged to use it. Countries like the Czech Republic use it for dental and hair appointments. Antigen testing should be rolled out and used here by anyone who wants to use it to fight Covid. I hope that when our response to this pandemic is examined, our unenthusiastic approach to antigen testing will not be identified as a missed opportunity. I call on the Minister for Health to make the tests available at no cost to any business or organisation that wishes to use them and to launch an education campaign in respect of antigen testing.

Comment on this

I am sure Members will agree with me when I express my solidarity with our healthcare professionals, who dealt with Covid-19 for the past 14 to 15 months and the stresses, strains, difficulties and challenges associated with that and who then faced the most unprecedented cyberattack in the history of the State, affecting 85,000 computers. I commend our healthcare professionals and their supervisors and managers on their unstinting commitment to ensuring that the impact on patients will be kept to a minimum. It is impossible to eliminate any and all effects on patients and appointments but they have done a stellar job in terms of ensuring that testing, tracing and testing and the vaccine roll-out have not been affected by this scurrilous and terrible attack on our State and the most vulnerable people in it.

I again wish to refer to aviation, a matter about which the Leader has spoken extensively in the past. Aviation is critical for our country, not just in terms of the number of people it employs but also in the context of the critical role it will play in kick-starting our economy. Ours is an island nation. That is the reality. Connectivity is critical for our country and is in large part achieved by means of aviation. I understand that a memorandum will be brought to Cabinet tomorrow in respect of reducing the impact of mandatory hotel quarantine and to remove it for a number of, if not all, European states. However, I am still waiting for meaningful short-, medium- and long-term plans regarding how we are going to assist our aviation industry in getting out of the situation in which it currently finds itself. This morning, Ryanair announced a loss of €850 million for last year.

Ryanair revolutionised air travel in this country and made it affordable for and accessible to people. That is just an example of the enormous uphill challenge facing our aviation industry. We need to keep our finger on the pulse and force the Government into action.

Comment on this
Mark Daly An Cathaoirleach

I remind Senators the allotted time is two minutes apiece. Everybody is taking a bit of injury time and extra time, which is elongating the Order of Business and delaying the Leader's time to respond. We have a long day ahead in terms of our business. I call Senator Moynihan.

Comment on this