We need a debate in this House with the Taoiseach to give us clarity on his stance, and the stance of his Government, on what national conversations or debates are allowed to be held in this country. Last week, the Taoiseach took aim at anti-NATO protesters who demonstrated at the Government's consultative forum on international security policy in Cork on Thursday. He said he had learned about freedom of speech and democracy in the very university they were occupying. He stated firmly that the "most undemocratic thing you can do is to try shout down debate". He said the process-----

The Taoiseach was not in Cork last Thursday, just to clarify.

Yes, he was there on Thursday morning.

The Taoiseach was not in Cork. It was the Tánaiste.

It was the Tánaiste. I beg your pardon. I elevated the Tánaiste to a position I should have-----

He is well used to it, in fairness.

It is just in the interests of accuracy-----

I am sorry; it is the Tánaiste. I beg your pardon.

-----and to avoid giving false information.

That was false. It is the Tánaiste, Deputy Micheál Martin. He said the protesters, in what they were attempting to do, were "behaving in a manner that is intolerant of freedom of speech" and that they did not want to allow other views to come forward. “What you’re saying is, debate on your terms, or on nobody else’s terms”, he said. Yet, the Tánaiste is on record as stating unequivocally-----

I wish to give context. I hate to interrupt the Senator and in fairness she is entitled to speak but the Senator must understand that the Tánaiste was being interrupted by people as he was speaking at that event. The Senator should give a fair context and balance as well.

I did state that.

I do not believe the Senator did. I stand corrected. I am not trying to put the Senator off speaking but making the point that we should be fair in our summation of the event that took place last Thursday in Cork.

I did say it was in Cork and, yes, I did make a mistake and should have stated it was the Tánaiste.

As he was speaking, he was being interrupted. The Senator should be fair in that as well. The floor is hers.

Yet, the Tánaiste is on record stating unequivocally, “We don’t need to have that kind of debate in Ireland”, in relation to how gender-critical women found their voices in the UK and began to speak out against the erosion of their rights, identities and spaces as a result of the changes brought about by radical trans activists. In addition, the pronouncement that the most undemocratic thing one can do is to try to shut down debate is made at the same time as the Government is expected to make no amendments to what I believe must be the most criticised Bill in years, one which will most certainly have the effect of shutting down debate and eroding freedom of expression in this country. Why is it that the Tánaiste gets to decide what debates are had and which ones must be centrally and artificially suppressed? Perhaps he will come before the House to explain why this is the case.

I gave the Senator more time because I interrupted her.

I thank the Cathaoirleach. I appreciate that.

I invite the Acting Leader to reply.

Senators made up for the lack of quantity with quality this morning. We started this morning's business with Senator Eugene Murphy who spoke about the Governor of Massachusetts, Maura Healey. We were all very inspired by her speech in the House yesterday. I thank the Cathaoirleach for organising that. Governor Healey really is an incredibly passionate woman. In her short time, she gave an all-embracing speech on the strength of the Irish-American connections and her personal connections, which were interesting to listen to, extending from Galway to Cork and Kerry to Newry. It was also lovely to have her mum, who is originally from Ballinasloe, in the Gallery. Her talk was on inclusion and it was particularly significant given that it is Pride month and we are commemorating 30 years since the decriminalisation of homosexuality.

The strength of our economic and cultural ties, as we all know, are hugely important, particularly as we celebrated this morning 60 years to the day since John F. Kennedy made his historic speech in Dáil Éireann. We want to have more of that please. We want to have more people like Maura Healey in here. She gave us all a lot of food for thought. We really appreciate that.

Senator Murphy also spoke about men's sheds. I was fortunate enough to get over to this morning's meeting for a few minutes. I agree with Senator Murphy that the men's sheds are terrific organisations. They are involved in so many communities right around Ireland, especially in rural areas where they have a very strong focus. I have seen the benefits of men's sheds in Newbridge, Athy, Rathangan and Allen in County Kildare. The Senator is right that we should be supporting them more. We certainly should be asking for these groups to be free from paying rates. It is a challenge to try to get sustainable accommodation for men's sheds. There is no reason they cannot share accommodation with other community groups. I support that.

Senator Paddy Burke spoke about active travel funding through local authorities. Active travel is travelling with a purpose using one's own energy, including walking and cycling, and to make people think about how they travel more sustainably. The Senator spoke about the duplication between local authorities, the National Transport Authority, NTA, and so on. The Senator is absolutely right and I agree that sometimes there is duplication between the various organisations. We need more clarity.

Senator Burke mentioned that there has been a reduction in funding in County Mayo, which he feels is nationwide. We will put in a pre-budget message on that. The Senator is looking for a debate, which would probably cover Rural Link also. Rural Link is funded by national funding but works through local authorities and does incredible work. With the two different strands, active travel and Rural Link, it would be worthwhile having a debate and we will look for one. In many ways, this issue is the lifeline of rural Ireland.

Senator Boyhan spoke about the 60th anniversary of the speech by John F. Kennedy, President of the United States of America. The Senator is ten years older than he thought he was because he was referring to the 50th anniversary ten years ago. The speech was a celebration of the many noted Irishmen, and of course there were noted Irish women as well. The men he mentioned, including James Hoban, John Barry, John Boyle O'Reilly and Thomas Francis Meagher, were very worthy men. It is wonderful. The Senator is right to point to the restoration of the flag that President John F. Kennedy presented to the Oireachtas on behalf of the people of America and on his own behalf, as the US President. I thank Senator Mark Daly also for his input in that regard.

Senator Gavan spoke about University Hospital Limerick and the HIQA report, which addressed ongoing overcrowding in Limerick and other hospitals. The first thing we need to do is thank the staff who are working under very difficult conditions and doing sterling work. There has been a large increase in bed numbers over the past two years but as our population is growing and getting older, there is more demand. The problem does not seem to be a lack of funding but a lack of outcomes. Outcomes are always more important than funding.

The Senator also mentioned the issue of contract cleaning staff finally getting their bonus, which is good. The security staff have not received it, however, and we will take that up with the Minister. As the Senator will be aware, everything goes through an independent third party, which comes back with recommendations. There have been anomalies. I have come across a few before and I have been active in trying to help deal with them.

I thank the Acting Leader.

Senator Clonan spoke about the case of Captain Dr. Lisa McNamee who enlisted in 2017 on the understanding that she would have the opportunity to have medical training, which still has not commenced. It would now cost her €90,000 to leave the Defence Forces. Obviously, that is a huge amount of money. None of us could afford to be able to leave a profession if it cost that amount. The Senator has written to the Minister for Defence in relation to the matter. I do not believe we should necessarily have an open debate on it but I give the Senator a commitment that I will speak to the Minister for Defence and try to set up a meeting for him and Captain Dr. Lisa McNamee.

Senator Keogan said that she wanted a debate with the Taoiseach. I am not sure whether she wants a debate with the Taoiseach or the Tánaiste.

I corrected the record.

Is the Senator looking for a debate with the Tánaiste?

Yes.

I will certainly not accede to a debate with the Tánaiste about what is and is not allowed. The freedom to protest and free speech are important to us all in Leinster House and it is absolutely a constitutional right. The issue that arose in Cork was that the Tánaiste was interrupted while he was speaking. The point he made was that there is and always should be a place for an alternative point of view, but it should be stated in an orderly fashion. It should not be done by heckling and interrupting someone who is speaking. The Senator also mentioned that the Tánaiste did not want a debate about trans issues. That is not what he said. I was there when he spoke about it and I remember. It was during Pride last year. What he said was that he did not want to see the conversation or debate turning as toxic as it had in England. We should be able to hold it in a mannerly and respectful format. I totally agree with him. At the time it was extremely toxic in the United Kingdom and unfortunately it has turned into a somewhat toxic debate here. That is not what we want. We want to respect people's views and opinions and to hold a debate in a mannerly fashion that is respectful of people on both sides of the debate.

A number of amendments have already been made to the Government's Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022, which the Senator spoke about. Since it came before the Seanad a few weeks ago, a number of amendments are being prepared. For example, my party is preparing amendments and is looking for a meeting with the Minister for Justice as we have some concerns about it. As the Senator is not happy with some of the content, I expect that she will table some amendments.

I thank Members for their attendance yesterday at the address by Governor Healey and their participation in this morning's wonderful event to commemorate the visit of John F. Kennedy 60 years ago today.