I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Moynihan, for coming to the House to discuss this Commencement matter. I would like to discuss the issue of bus escorts and transport for special schools.

When the Minister of State and I spoke at the Joint Committee on Education and Youth on 16 July last year, he gave me a commitment that he would look into this. I look forward to getting an update from him.

I am on the board of an amazing special school in Navan, County Meath. It was a big eye opener to see the work of all the staff in the school. If one is ever near the school between 8.30 a.m. and 9 a.m., one will find it is an absolute hive of activity. There is one area I did not understand, however, until I began to work with the school, namely transport to and from it, the work done by bus escorts in most special schools and the difficulties associated with this. I will go into my idea for managing the system of bus escorts further as I have done before during my time here.

My first focus is the timing of the social welfare payment. The escorts leave for the Easter holidays because they are not paid throughout the year and it can take five or six weeks to receive a social welfare payment. When they leave at Christmas, it takes the same amount of time. They leave in June, and it can be August by the time they get paid. I very much appreciate that there have been pay rises in the sector staggered over the past number of months, which is great. However, bus escorts have to fill out forms and answer questions about whether their circumstances are the same. They have filled out forms at Easter and may have to fill them out again in the summer. Jobs where people are constantly going on and off social welfare require a mechanism to be in place to speed up the process for them. Who can work up to the summer and expect to survive for five weeks without social welfare payments? I am sure a job like that is very rewarding and often very challenging. We should not add to the pressures on them by having a system whereby they do not get their payments on time.

The 24 buses at the school I work with, all of which carry vulnerable children, arrive at the same time from all over County Meath and, in some cases, Dublin. They are escorted by bus escorts who, as I have said, do an incredible job. There is a facility in the special educational needs transport scheme for the appointment of a school transport escort where a child's care and safety needs while on school transport are such as to require the support of the school transport escort. One has to see what happens in the schoolyards like the one in the school with which I work to believe it. They are packed with buses, bus escorts, children, parents and staff. It takes the principal and vice principal to stand in the yard every morning to get the children off the buses and direct them to where they need to go. They may also have to arrange for them to have a run around after having been on a bus for a long time. As one can imagine, they can be overwhelmed.

What is the issue? Very often bus escorts are unavoidably sick, take holidays or deal with an unexpected situation just like employees in any job do. When they are unwell, the calls start at 6 a.m. and it is up to the school principal and vice principal to try to sort out this among everything else, and this can be very difficult. It is left to the school to be the employer of bus escorts. They receive 5% of the bus escorts' wages for administration, but the cost is much more than that.

Special schools are at capacity. The role is challenging. Having to manage bus escorts is adding to a pot that is about to boil over. I ask the Department of Education and Youth and the Minister of State to examine this situation with a fresh approach, as I mentioned last year. I am not sure whether people realise that the management of the school is stretched enough. In cases like St. Ultan's School in Navan, this means looking after 24 extra staff which is not technically part of its work remit. I also spoke to St. Mary's Special School in Johnstown in Navan about that this. It manages 21 buses and 24 bus escorts.

Would the Department consider a transport manager to co-ordinate special buses travelling to and from schools? I have harped on about this for over a year. It is a brilliant idea. There would not be a specific transport manager for each school, but rather one that co-ordinates special schools in a locality. A handful of schools in Meath would be dealt with by a transport manager who would co-ordinate the buses and bus escorts. It would take that work from principals and vice principals and let them go about doing their job. It is a stressful and very rewarding environment. It could be an absolute game changer. One can imagine the benefits of taking away this stress each morning from the people whose goal it is to teach people in the school rather than having to look after transport.

I thank the Senator for her question. Bus escorts who travel on school buses do amazing work and have huge responsibility, but they love their job. I meet them on a number of mornings during the week and see the work they are doing. The Senator asked about pay for those working in special schools. I know full well the extraordinary work being done in special schools the length and breadth of the country by school leadership, teachers and SNAs.

Of course, we have the discussion about the co-ordination of the buses. Personally, I am not in favour of putting an overarching body over a number of special schools and then having that centralised because the autonomy has to be within the school. There is such a huge cohort and a strong unit within the special schools. I understand the point the Senator makes, which is about the amount of work that is there for the principals and the deputy principals to co-ordinate that and that they are making sure that they have school bus escorts recruited and that they are deployed in terms of their availability and so forth each day. There is a whole series of work being done there, and I know that that is extra work they do as part of their administrative role. The administration of it is brought up with us at each and every special school we visit and indeed at schools with a number of special classes. They would have buses coming in as well, and the co-ordination of it is important, as is making sure we have a system in place. It is important as well, however, that we keep the autonomy of the individual schools. Sometimes if we create another layer of bureaucracy in the system, it is not as close to the school, to the child, to the parent or to the school community. That is my own personal opinion on it. We have done a lot of work in relation to the school bus escorts and, as the Senator quite rightly pointed out, the salaries have been increased over the past while, which is very welcome. We are working to engage further in terms of making sure there is a proper system in place.

As regards the issue the Senator raised about summer, Christmas and Easter, first of all, it is an issue for the Department of Social Protection. Be that as it may, however, it is important that we understand that we must protect the school bus escorts, who are an integral part of the special classes and the special schools, and ensure we can simplify the process for them. The Senator referred in her opening remarks to the repeated form-filling. It is challenging and it is seen as over-bureaucratic and just ticking the boxes for the sake of it. I think there is something we need to look at there. There are people within the Department of Social Protection who would say that there were other professionals working within the school system heretofore, but it is important that we try to simplify the system where people can get their benefits without having the constant form-filling and the delay within the system. Year on year, they will apply for social welfare during the various breaks. The Senator spoke to me at the Oireachtas joint committee and this was something we took away. It is also something we have discussed with school leadership around the country in the various special schools we have visited over the past 12 months to get their feedback and their ideas on it. I seriously pay tribute to all those who are working within special schools for the amazing work they do.

Sula leanaimid ar aghaidh, I would like to welcome students from UCC with Deputy Thomas Gould today in the Gallery. Tá fáilte romhaibh.

I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive answer. I am glad he said that the pay needs to be worked on and that he took that away from our discussion on it last year. I acknowledge that he says this is an issue for the Department of Social Protection, but the Deputy is the Minister of State working with the bus escorts and that transport side of it, so it is about the two Departments liaising on it. They cannot wait five weeks in the summer to get paid. It just has to be looked at. I am glad to hear that we are working on it but I urge the Minister of State to try to improve on this for this summer. To think that they could get paid when they finish up work would be fantastic.

With the greatest respect to the Minister of State, before he states that he does not personally want this in schools, does he not think we should research it first? If you actually go out and ask the principals and the vice principals of the schools, they do not want to manage the bus escorts. The Minister of State talks about taking that away and says it is an extra layer of bureaucracy, but it will allow them to do more within the schools. It is not something I personally feel; I listen to them, and that is what they are coming back with. They would love to have some sort of transport co-ordinator - I am not saying in every school. I have not researched every school in the country. However, is it something we should look at, maybe talking to them about it?

It is great to be here with the students from UCC as well. I welcome them. It is great to be with Cork people when we are in the Chambers in Dublin - a little bit of support from them.

I take the Senator's point on the co-ordinator. I would be reluctant to have some external body co-ordinating a number of schools but I take the point in relation to specific co-ordinators within schools because in special schools and special classes, that often falls to the deputy principal. It is something that has been raised continuously with the Department. From my engagement with the special schools in my area over a long number of years, I know the concerns they have and some have a number of buses for students from special classes. I understand the challenge that is there.

There are two issues related to what the Senator has raised with me. The first is to make sure that the benefits are given to the school bus escorts in a speedier time. That is something that we will engage with the Department of Social Protection on. I do not absolve myself from any responsibility, it is under our remit, and it is about a whole-of-government approach. We have to have a whole-of-government approach right across the sectors to make sure we are not just ticking boxes. I accept that fully but I make the point that we have to engage with them. While it is not something that is directly under my remit, I will certainly do that.

On co-ordination, I do not have any issue with exploring co-ordination within individual schools. Sometimes we see the interaction with the various semi-State bodies, such as Bus Éireann or others, and we are informed that someone else has to complete that application and then it is back for another application. I am not sure that we should look at putting in a third application or something else. We need to simply all of the services that are around special schools and special classes to make it simpler and take out the bureaucracy as much as possible. However, I do take the Senator's points on board.