I welcome the Minister back to the House. She will speak for ten minutes, group spokespersons for eight minutes, all other Senators for five minutes and the Minister of State will reply no later than 3.20 p.m.

I thank the Cathaoirleach and Seanad colleagues for this opportunity to update them on my priorities as Minister for Defence and to listen to their views. This builds on the discussion we had only in the past two weeks. We need to have an honest debate in this country about defence and security and particularly about the role that Óglaigh na hÉireann will play in that regard. That debate can, and indeed should, take place in various forums, but it is essential the Houses of the Oireachtas debates issues around the security and defence of the State, so I welcome us having this discussion today.

As Minister for Defence, I am determined to drive forward an ambitious agenda to continue the transformation of the Defence Forces into a modern, fit-for-purpose organisation capable of defending the State and its people. In the past few weeks, I participated in a meeting of EU defence ministers and I attended the Munich Security Conference. It is very clear from my engagement with my EU and international colleagues that we all share the same concerns about the complex security environment in Europe, not least because of Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine, which we acknowledged started four years ago yesterday. Importantly, we also share the ambition for Europe as a whole to step up its investment in defence and security. Ireland will not be found wanting in that regard. Both these engagements reaffirmed my belief that Ireland needs to be ambitious in delivering the necessary capability, infrastructure and personnel to meet the security challenges, not just today but in future. The Government and I are fully committed to strengthening lreland’s defence by increasing investment with a view to achieving a significantly enhanced capability by 2028 and thereafter moving as quickly as possible to develop defence capabilities that match those of other small western European countries.

Nobody doubts the Defence Forces need greater investment. We all agree on that. This is precisely why Government is investing record funding, with €1.7 billion from the national development plan between now and 2030. This is a 55% increase on our previous capital plan. We will continue to increase our investment in the Defence Forces, but I am taking this opportunity to highlight what we are doing in that regard. In the period 2022 to 2026, the funding allocation for defence increased by €338 million or 40% from €836 million in 2022 to €1.17 billion in 2026. These funding increases have been delivered across the pay, current non-pay and capital spending categories. Since 2022, the capital funding allocation has increased by €159 million to €300 million, the current non-pay funding allocation has increased by 84% to almost €277 million in 2026 and the current pay funding allocation has increased by €10% to almost €598 million.

However, as Senators know, it is not just about funding, though that is extremely important. It is essential that we continue to reform the structures and culture of the Defence Forces and invest its members - the men and women of Oghlaigh na hÉireann. l recently announced the publication of the strategic framework 2026 and the updated detailed implementation plan for the Report of the Commission on the Defence Forces, which reflect my key priorities for Defence. They essentially bring together the very many strategies and the various bodies of work that have been under way and that we want to ensure continue. To realise this ambition my key priorities as Minister include advancing an ambitious legislative programme, including a Bill to remove the existing requirement regarding the triple lock and a further Bill aimed at strengthening governance arrangements and supporting workforce reform through amending high-level structures within the Defence Forces. I will continue to drive the implementation of reform and transformation in our Defence Forces, particularly with respect to cultural change. A huge amount of work has been, and is being, done but we need to ensure that is embedded and that we see real and meaningful cultural change within the Defence Forces. I will support Defence Forces personnel, who again are the men and women who make all of this happen.

I want to ensure that investment translates into real capability with a particular focus on the greater use of new technologies. We all know there is now a greater need than ever, given the changing threats we are facing and currently experiencing, to invest in new technology and innovative ways to respond and defend ourselves. Progressing an ambitious policy agenda includes the implementation of the maritime security strategy and initiating a further defence policy review. I thank colleagues for attending this morning's launch of our first ever national maritime security strategy.

I take this opportunity to address a number of key priorities. As Minister for Defence, one of my driving forces is to deliver meaningful cultural change in the Defence Forces. Transformative change involves structures, culture, capability and people management. To achieve this, it is necessary to institute reforms spanning primary legislation, capability development, HR and culture. From a culture perspective, there is a huge amount of work being done, particularly driven by the external oversight body, chaired by Patricia King, focusing on how we can embed changes that are absolutely necessary. I again acknowledge the role Women of Honour have played in bringing about this necessary reform. I am committed to working with them and also the Defence Forces to ensure this is embedded.

We are putting in place a number of crucial HR initiatives, which will bolster the progress that has already been made in this area. Particular emphasis will be placed on enhanced career and talent management policies and practices, as well as revised access to promotional opportunities, a civilisation strategy and a workforce plan. With that there needs to be a particular emphasis on ensuring that women have an opportunity to progress through the various ranks, and that there are promotional opportunities that perhaps do not seem to be available at the moment. When we outline the new civilianisation and workforce plan strategy, there will be a particular emphasis on increasing what is quite a low base at the moment of 7.5% female participation.

Recruitment and retention initiatives are a driving force of the success of all transformation efforts. Improvements in recruitment policies and processes are beginning to bear fruit, with personnel numbers starting to grow again and interest in a career in the Defence Forces strengthening year on year. Last year, about 16,500 people applied and we have seen that reflected in the increase not just in our Naval Service and Army, but also in the Air Corps. My priority is to sustain this increase in recruitment, strengthen retention and support long-term career development for all the men and women of our Defence Forces.

A key part of my priority to enhance the capabilities of the Defence Forces is the military radar programme and good progress is being made. As an island nation, we must be ambitious in our air defence capabilities when it comes to our maritime security. The programme for radar will include three elements: land-based long-range primary radar; ground-based air defence systems, to include a counter-unmanned aerial system, or counter-drone, capability; and maritime, ship-borne radar. When fully delivered, the recognised air picture will incorporate this suite of military radar systems, which will have the capability to detect all aircraft traversing our airspace. We need that full maritime and overall domain picture.

Full delivery of the programme will be complex. Roll-out will commence this year and has been prioritised, with a target delivery date of 2028. I want it rolled out as soon as possible. Elements will be rolled out in phases, including the delivery of counter-drone technology in the second quarter of this year. I assure colleagues that we will have that technology in place for our EU Presidency to support and enhance the work An Garda Síochána will be doing as the main security provider for the Presidency.

Another key priority for me is the defence (amendment) Bill, which aims at revising how we deploy our Defence Forces overseas. I expect to bring the Bill to Cabinet for approval as soon as possible following the conclusion of the drafting process and to subsequently progress it through the Houses. I will look for support from colleagues in that regard.

The Bill will also make amendments to the Defence Acts to provide for the suspension, in certain circumstances, of a member of the Defence Forces, as well as associated matters. When we talk about the cultural reform piece, it is extremely important that there be better structures in place to be able to put a member on suspension if they are going through a criminal process.

With regard to the triple lock provisions, it is time to face facts. The legislation currently in place allows any of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council, by means of a veto or, indeed, threat of veto, to bind this country's hands in its international peacekeeping engagement. We should not and cannot tolerate that. Recent vetoes by a UN Security Council member on a proposed resolution for a full and unconditional ceasefire in Gaza last June and September, as well as the challenges evidenced last summer with regard to the extension of the UNIFIL peacekeeping mission in southern Lebanon, are ample evidence of this. If the UNIFIL mandate had gone to a vote last year and not been extended, we would have had to plan to withdraw our Defence Forces personnel from UNIFIL immediately following the expiration of the mandate. The extension of the UNIFIL mandate until the end of this year only happened because there was a compromise and engagement. It allows us to continue our deployment of Defence Forces personnel to the mission, but they must be withdrawn next year. When they are withdrawn next year, we will have 85 Defence Forces personnel on missions across the globe and in Brussels contributing to other types of missions. We cannot allow that to continue in this way. We need to ensure that our international peacekeeping missions can continue. We want to be very much part of new missions as they arise. There are ongoing missions that we currently cannot be part of. We have a proud tradition of peacekeeping and we want to ensure that continues.

I want to make it absolutely clear that the Government has no desire to alter our policy of military neutrality. The amendments proposed will do nothing to change Ireland's traditional position of military neutrality, which has always been characterised by Ireland's non-participation in military alliances. Our engagement overseas will continue to be firmly grounded in the principles of the UN Charter and international law and will, of course, require the consent of the democratically elected representatives of the people of Ireland.

The national maritime security strategy, published this morning, is a significant initiative and the first strategy of its kind in this country. In the context of a challenging geopolitical landscape and given the considerable threats and risks currently faced by the country, the strategy concentrates on securing the maritime domain from threats related to national security and defence. The strategy and accompanying action plan provide a roadmap over the next five years to safeguard Ireland’s sovereign maritime interests, ensure safe and secure seas, and support international legal order in the maritime domain. It is important that we do that working in close co-operation with our European and international partners. That is a key focus of the strategy.

My immediate ambition is on implementation and action, moving to deliver a new, whole-of-government approach to protect the security of our maritime domain, along with developing the concept of a national maritime security centre. A particularly important aspect of the strategy is to ensure that we co-operate with regional partners and international institutions. This will include co-operating closely with our near neighbours, the UK and France, and beyond on new initiatives, exploring the opportunity for Ireland to host or partner in a regional cable-monitoring hub for the EU in the north Atlantic. This will build on the work being done, the programmes that we are already included in and the exchanges that are already taking place. It is about enhancing it and being more ambitious.

From all of my EU and international engagements, it is quite evident that few if any countries can address the multitude of challenges facing them without some form of international collaboration. Therefore, one specific action resulting from the strategy is the pursuit of opportunities to participate in JEF+ activities, which supports non-NATO members participating in certain activities of the joint expeditionary force, JEF, on an ad hoc basis as long as no members of the group object. It was established in 2014 as a coalition of ten nations comprising high-readiness military preparedness to respond rapidly to crises. I believe this is something we should engage in and be part of. I anticipate, for example, that participation in JEF+ could enable personnel from our Naval Service to participate in training and exercises to learn and bring back best practice to Ireland and increase our ability to counter the maritime threats that we face.

There is much more that I could say about this and I appreciate that the Cathaoirleach has given me latitude with time as it is. A huge amount of work is happening. I am, and I think colleagues here are, really ambitious in ensuring we can go beyond what we have been doing in the recent past and support the men and women of Óglaigh na hÉireann. I sincerely thank the men and women of our Defence Forces for the work they do day in and day out in often very difficult circumstances at home and abroad. We are all extremely proud of them. We are all ambitious about making sure we can provide them with the support, resources and expansion that they need to be able to respond to the changing and challenging environment in the world we are living in.

The Minister is very welcome to the Seanad. I thank her for taking time out to update us on defence matters. I know she has a lot of responsibilities in her other Department as well. I acknowledge her recent visit to Dún Uí Mhaoilíosa in Renmore, County Galway, where she awarded the distinguished service medals to the chaplain, Fr. Paul Murphy, Private Ciara Shanahan, Corporal Daniel Padden and Private Dylan Geraghty.

It was great to see the ceremony and the excitement, particularly among family members of those who acted so heroically that day. Of course, Fr. Murphy was the victim of an attack and I commend him on the graciousness of his forgiveness.

The Minister also opened the new officer accommodation unit in Dún Uí Mhaoilíosa. It was great to see investment in such high-quality accommodation, recreation rooms and so on. I am a member of the Oireachtas committee on defence and national security and we visited Gormanston in County Meath recently. I am aware that the Minister has also visited Gormanston since taking up her role as Minister for Defence. Again, the level of investment going on there is good to see and that is reflected not just in the figures she has given but in the work on the ground and the changes being made to the environment for new recruits. I welcome the respect that it shows to the profession, which is so important for the security of the State.

The Minister recently attended the launch of a document on defence by Young Fine Gael, which sets out a vision of reform that redefines Ireland's defence position, protects its role in peacekeeping and strengthens its humanitarian role in the world. It mentions the importance of cybersecurity and national security intelligence, which must be treated as equal, to land, sea and air defence. The document calls for increased budgets to acquire additional military capabilities, a national recruitment drive and improvements in pay and training. It contains proposals to create a national cybersecurity defence command within the Defence Forces and a national security council under the chairpersonship of An Taoiseach to bring a whole-of-government approach to this area. It also calls for reforms at UN level to make peacekeeping missions more effective and flexible and for the removal of the triple lock to allow Ireland to make an even greater contribution to peacekeeping. It contains proposals for an urgent upgrade to radar and sonar systems to protect the 75% of European cables that pass through Irish waters while maintaining Ireland's neutrality. It proposes that we engage in enhanced partnerships with friendly nations, which will strengthen Ireland's resilience while preserving our independence and enhancing our humanitarian role and values. The Minister attended the launch of that document and has engaged with Young Fine Gael on it.

Most people are in agreement that we need a new era for defence. We have seen in the plans that have been published and the strategies we are publishing a determination to take this country's defence capabilities much more seriously than we have done in the past. We have to be able to stand on our own two feet. That will not happen today or tomorrow but we have to move in that direction. We want to be able to be proud to go to a European Council meeting with everybody else and show that we have increased our spending and investment and that we can stand on our own two feet in relation to the security of our island and the infrastructure that is so critical for the European Union. The Minister has laid out her vision and that of the Department and the Government on this and that is hugely important. That ambition is there and the increase in spending is clear. The Minister has mentioned the need to strengthen Ireland's defence by increasing investment in enhanced capability by 2028. We have seen increased investment under the national development plan, which, again, is very welcome. I note the announcement in recent days that Ireland is to buy hundreds of new armoured vehicles and artillery pieces from France, which will significantly expand the capability of the Army to conduct on-island defence. The planned deal, which is expected to be worth more than €600 million, will involve the biggest investment in army equipment in the history of the State as part of a military modernisation programme. It also involves acquiring primary radar and systems to monitor Irish airspace. All of that is very necessary and very welcome. It is good to see that level of investment on the ground.

The Minister mentioned the general scheme of the defence (amendment) Bill and the triple lock. The Oireachtas committee, of which I am a member, had a number of weeks of engagement on that Bill. I have no doubt the Minister has read, familiarised herself with and noted the recommendations from the joint committee on defence and national security. I will now point to a number of them. The committee recommends that Ireland continue to take a lead role in UN reform and the use of the Uniting for Peace resolution mechanism at the UN General Assembly. This represents an attitude of "if we could, we would". We would all like to be able to reform the United Nations. Ireland has engaged in that and will continue to do so, but it requires agreement. It is a worthy objective because the UN Security Council is not fit for purpose and that is why the triple lock, as the Minister stated, is not deemed to be suitable to continue with. There has been discussion at the joint committee of whether there could be a role for the General Assembly in the context of resolutions. I know such resolutions are non-binding but there may be some way around that. Any proposals to send troops on a mission would have to comply with international law and the UN Charter but we need something firmer in relation to resolutions and the role of the General Assembly. That would certainly be welcome as a safeguard.

We have set out under head 6, subhead 3 the circumstances and conditions in which Defence Forces personnel might be deployed. The committee also recommends that proposals to increase the number of Defence Forces personnel allowed to be dispatched or deployed without Dáil oversight under the provisions of head 6 be revised to include, at a minimum, oversight provisions by the joint committee on defence and national security and the joint committee on foreign affairs and trade. The joint committee also recommends that the proposal to increase the number of Defence Forces personnel allowed to be dispatched or deployed be amended to include a specific requirement to provide information to the joint committee on defence and national security on any decision taken around those provisions and that the legislation should specify a time limit for the furnishing of such information. Those are just some of the recommendations of the committee. We had a good debate. Like any pre-legislative scrutiny process, we had good scrutiny and engagement on this whole area and put forward a number of suggestions.

On recruitment, I acknowledge that the number of recruits in the Naval Service is increasing and I welcome the maritime security strategy. I apologise for not getting to the launch of that strategy earlier today. We have vast sections of the ocean and it is important that they be defended. We must increase the spend and the capabilities to defend not just our waters but also the infrastructure therein. That is being taken seriously and we must have continued investment in recruits and ships that are capable of defence and fit for purpose. I welcome all of that, which was outlined by the Minister. I also welcome the investment in radar. Again, it is important to know what is out there, in terms of who is using our airspace, and as Senator Craughwell has quite rightly mentioned on numerous occasions, it is important to know what we are going to do about it if we find out that people are using our airspace. In terms of relationships, the use of the French navy and air force has been mentioned in the context of our European Presidency. Are those sorts of partnerships something that we will be looking to in the medium term?

I thank the Minister for being here. I have a lot of questions, which I will try to get through within the allotted four minutes. We do not have a defence strategy published as yet-----

Senator, you have eight minutes. Senator Craughwell is giving you the full time.

Is Senator Craughwell not speaking?

Senator Craughwell will speak later.

Okay. We do not have a defence strategy published and therefore, in the context of this plan, will the Minister explain to the House why she is spending €600 million on armoured fighting vehicles to equip, I am assuming, mechanised infantry formations and mechanised armoured formations? What threat is that going to meet? What is the Minister's concept of that threat? Does she expect a land or ground invasion of similarly equipped mechanised infantry? If not, what is the purpose of that? Is it fit for purpose in the 21st century, based on all we have learned since Russia's invasion of Ukraine? Is that where we should be spending €600 million? I would be curious to know.

The Minister stated that it is "essential the Houses of the Oireachtas debates issues around the security and defence of the State". I agree with the Minister, but we cannot have an informed debate here if we have no parliamentary oversight of defence and security. We are the only country in the European Union and among our neighbours in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland that has no parliamentary oversight of defence and security. We are the only country in the EU where security is dealt with by the primary intelligence agency of the State, namely, An Garda Síochána. The Minister is not allowing the defence and national security committee to examine, oversee, discuss and interrogate Ireland's national defence and security by imposing extremely narrow parameters.

Does the Minister support expanding the scope of reference for the national defence and security committee because without that oversight and governance, we have no idea what is happening? I and other members of the committee have no idea, for example, why the Minister is spending €0.6 billion on armoured fighting vehicles. We have no idea why she signed a memorandum with the French or by what process that was negotiated and involving whom. We have no idea about so many things because we do not have a strategy. This is a community of decision-makers who over the last three decades have allowed our defence to go down onto its knees and have made poor decision after poor decision to the extent that we now have no defences – no credible or meaningful defences – in the maritime, ground, air or cyber domains. Does the Minister think it is acceptable that decision-makers across the Departments of the Taoiseach and Defence, the Defence Forces themselves, the Department of justice and An Garda Síochána should not be amenable to oversight, questioning and discussion from members of our committee and these Houses of the Oireachtas or should it remain opaque and unseen? We know in Ireland that when something lacks oversight or governance it always ends in tears. I have grave concerns about our national security and intelligence architecture and infrastructure because I see no evidence in any of the statements that there is an actual understanding of what the key challenges are that confront us both internally and externally. It is all very vague. To what end and to whose benefit are we going to spend €0.6 billion on armoured vehicles?

On the points the Minister made about the triple lock, she stated,“With regard to the triple lock provisions, it is time to face facts” and then said something that was not factual, namely, “The legislation currently in place allows ... members of the UN Security Council, by means of a veto or, indeed, threat of same, to bind this country's hands”. That is not the truth. The UN Security Council permanent members do not care whether we deploy or not. The reason we have the triple lock is that it was a sovereign decision of the people through these Houses of the Oireachtas, reinforced by sovereign commitments and statements made in Europe. It is a decision of the Irish people not to deploy without a UN Security Council mandate. It is not the decision of Russia, Trump, Putin or Xi Jinping. It was a decision of the Irish people. That is an inaccuracy and a false narrative that is being repeated over and over again. When the Minister says that I will not say she is misleading the House or the people-----

It is not inaccurate.

-----but it is certainly misinformation.

It is not.

And if it is not misinformation, it is certainly misinformed to say that.

It is not.

The other thing is the Minister spoke about peacekeeping. Does the Minister think there will be a peacekeeping mission in our lifetime? I tell her now there will not be because that era, the Cold War era of classic peacekeeping Chapter VI missions, is over. That is why the UN Security Council put an end to the UNIFIL mandate in Lebanon. I heard Members of this House ask whether Irish soldiers could not stay on? If Irish soldiers stay on without a UN Security Council mandate they will be slaughtered either by Hezbollah or the Israelis. There is so much misinformed, ill informed conversation and discussion about what this means. What there will be is peace enforcement missions, that is, Chapter VIIs, coalitions of the willing, stabilisation forces. For example, the one that is mooted for Gaza will be an international military force to guarantee security, most likely led by a Muslim country. Perhaps it will be Türkiye or Sunni Muslims, like the Gazans. Their mission will be to disarm Hamas. That will be a fighting mission. Does the Minister want to send Irish troops there?

I am not suggesting that.

I am posing a hypothetical question to illustrate the point that by removing the triple lock the Minister will allow a community of decision-makers who are unaccountable, do not come to the committee and do not answer our questions to make decisions like that. Their track record of decision making has been absolutely catastrophic for the State, our Defence Forces and our security. We are Europe’s weakest link because of the decisions of that community of decision-makers that the Minister is asking us to trust in the absence of a triple lock. The Minister keeps talking about peacekeeping. Stop. She is incorrect. It is peace enforcement – it is war fighting - Chapter VII - like Afghanistan or when the Implementation Force, IFOR, became the Stabilisation Force, SFOR. They very often expand into full-time combat operations. SFOR bombed Serbia. It bombed the Chinese embassy and blew up a television station. Is that what the Minister wants us to get involved in without the protection of the triple lock? Because, by default, that is what she is suggesting.

I have other points but I am running out of time. On culture, I published a doctoral thesis 25 years ago which set out in forensic detail all of the problems and solutions around culture in the Defence Forces. I brought into the public domain the systematic and systemic sexual violence against male and female troops and the bullying and harassment and discrimination. Here we are 25 years later. The Women of Honour came forward with fresh disclosures and reinforced that the culture has not changed. The independent review group described the Defence Forces as a culture that barely tolerated women and saw them as less than human. We now have a judge-led inquiry sitting in Smithfield to try to answer the questions that I answered 25 years ago in black and white. In that 25 years not one person from the Department of Defence or from Óglaigh na hÉireann has ever asked me for an input or my advice. Not once. In that time there has been no harm reduction. Hundreds and hundreds of young men and women, sailors, soldiers and air crew, have had their lives altered, in many cases leading to suicide-----

Senator.

-----because the authorities did not act on the information that I put into the public domain 25 years ago. That is the community of decision makers we are dealing with and the Minister wants us to trust them? She wants us to trust them to formulate a defence strategy-----

Senator.

-----or to continue to operate without the oversight of the committee-----

Senator.

Thank you.

When the Senator is being called on during a debate I would ask that he acknowledge the Chair when he is being asked.

Apologies.

Okay. I call an Seanadóir Wilson. He is sharing time.

I wish to share time with my colleague Senator Gallagher, four minutes and four minutes.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

I welcome the Minister back to the House. This is her second time here in three weeks, which is a great start. That is more time in the Seanad than some of her predecessors spent in an entire session of this House. She is very welcome. She has definitely hit the ground running and I congratulate her on that. Like Senators Kyne and Craughwell and other colleagues, I was delighted to be in Galway two weeks ago to witness the presentation by the Minister and the Chief of Staff of distinguished service medals to Fr. Paul Murphy and three members of Óglaigh na hÉireann, Private Dylan Geraghty, Corporal Daniel Padden and Private Ciara Shanahan. It was a great occasion. These three young soldiers came to the aid of the chaplain when he was under attack in Galway barracks two years ago. It was great to see them recognised, acknowledge and rewarded for their actions. I was glad to meet the chief chaplain of the Defence Forces who happens to be a former school mate of mine, Fr. Paschal Hanrahan. I had not met him in many, many years and I was delighted to meet him there. It is one aspect of the excellent work our Defence Forces do.

I welcome the publication of the national maritime security strategy this morning. I welcome the fact the French Government will work along with the Irish Government in developing the protection of our seas in the economic zone and our undersea cables. I have a question on the undersea cables that the Minister probably will not be able to answer today. Has any attempt been made to negotiate with the various private entities who actually own the undersea cables that pass through our waters to make a contribution towards their protection?

I understand the technology is out there but it is very expensive. It is incumbent upon them to pay some contribution towards the protection of those cables. That is not taking away from our responsibility to protect our own national and economic waters.

I will concentrate on the recruitment and retention policy of the Defence Forces. My colleague, Senator Gallagher, will deal with other matters. I welcome the fact that there was a net increase of 200 in the numbers of people serving in our Defence Forces. However, we have a long way to go. My understanding is that our strength at present should be 9,500 and the actual numbers are 7,700. We have made a commitment that there will be 8,000 members of the Defence Forces by the end of this year. Is that going to happen? There is a commitment under level of ambition, LOA, 2 to have 11,500 personnel in uniform as members of the Defence Forces by 2028. It is now time for us to recognise the fact that we are not going to achieve that. Like the Minister, I would very much hope we would but we are not going to achieve that number and we should be realistic about it. I understand that our capability is to train in the region of 900 to 1,000 recruits per year. We need to increase that dramatically if we are to achieve our goal of 11,500.

I welcome the guests of Senator Boyle. His daughter Amy is here from Niall Mór National School. She is most welcome. Also from St. Catherine's Vocational School in Killybegs, County Donegal, we have Holly Meehan, Catherine Byrne, Amy Rawdon, Kayla Boyle, Trisha Meehan, Orla and Niall Canning. They are most welcome to Seanad Éireann. I thank Senator Boyle for bringing them in.

I, too, welcome Senator Boyle and the good people from Donegal to the Gallery this afternoon.

All the great people are from Donegal, is that not right Senator?

I was about to say that; the Chair beat me to it.

Tá fáilte roimh an Aire ar ais chuig an Teach seo inniu. The Minister is very welcome back to the House this afternoon for this very timely debate in relation to our Defence Forces and the defence of our country. Indeed, I would like to commence where the Minister left off and acknowledge and thank the men and women of the Defence Forces for the fantastic service they give to this country. We are deeply proud that they act on our behalf and I would like to thank them for that service.

As the Minister outlined, unfortunately, the world we live in today is a very difficult place. It is a very unpredictable world with the geopolitical situation changing almost on a daily basis. With that come challenges for us in relation to the new reality that exists out there when it comes to the defence of our people and the defence of our land. With that in mind, I would like to make a couple of points that have been brought into stark realisation now by the fact that come July, we will take up the EU Presidency and that will bring challenges to our country and to our Defence Forces generally. As the poet John Donne once said, "No man is an island". No person is an island and when it comes to defence, no country in the world can totally and confidently defend itself 100% without the co-operation of its neighbours and without the co-operation of our EU colleagues as well, and we are no different in that regard. There has to be a certain realisation brought to that point.

In relation to the Defence Forces generally, I welcome the fact that we have made some progress with regard to recruitment. Senator Wilson alluded to that fact in his contribution. The figures are encouraging and it is positive but we are coming from a very low base and we have to be realistic in that regard. We have hopefully turned the corner, but we have a long road ahead of us. While I welcome the recent recruitment campaigns, which have been modernised now to new entry development, greater focus has been and needs to be ramped up, if you like, in relation to retention as well. It is good that the Government realises we have a lot of work to do and there are challenges ahead. We need to address those to get our Defence Forces up to the level we need them to be and the quicker we get there, the better.

I have a couple of specific questions in the short time I have left. The Minister mentioned the anti-drone equipment in her contribution. What exactly will that allow us to do? I have a couple of questions in relation to the retention piece, one of which is with regard to the economic climate we are in with full employment and the many different choices people have out there. The recent recruitment for cadetships launched this year and, unfortunately, when we break down the salaries on offer, that is, €26,000 for the first year and €28,000 for the second year, it is still below the minimum wage. We need to and should be doing better in that regard. I would like to get the Minister's comments on that. She talked about and referenced the new detailed implementation plan for the Report of the Commission on the Defence Forces, which was launched back in 2023. It had something like 130 recommendations. I note recently in February of this year that 43 new recommendations have been alluded to with extended timeframes for those. What kind of consultation was there in relation to those? How much further are we pushing out the deadlines in relation to those? I thank the Cathaoirleach for his latitude.

I thank the Minister for coming in. The current assault on the triple lock by the Government is enormously alarming. It is even more alarming when we hear the powerful contribution from Senator Clonan, who clearly has knowledge and experience. He has, through an evidence-based argument, deconstructed the argument by the Government for the need to get rid of the triple lock. Almost all evidence points to the fact that most Irish people believe the triple lock is necessary and is an important protection to ensure our neutrality. Recent polls have shown that our neutrality in the triple lock is supported by a significant majority and despite this, the Government seems dead set on dismantling the protection to allow for the deployment of our Defence Forces abroad without UN approval. Let us be clear; if the Government's Bill is enacted, it will make Ireland less safe. The general scheme of the defence (amendment) Bill 2025 aims to erode the triple lock, which the Taoiseach, Micheál Martin, described in the Dáil in 2013 as being at "the core of our neutrality". In the same debate, he said that although "the United Nations is not working as it should ... we must not abandon it as an essential part of the international system". In the years since then, the world has become a more dangerous and less stable place. Our neutrality is now more important than ever in ensuring our security and keeping us out of the international wars that put our Defence Forces and our country at risk. Yet, the Government has opted to attack the core of our neutrality in a clear attempt to move us closer to NATO and align us with EU militarisation. This is the direction of travel the Government is putting us on. It is undermining our long-standing military neutrality, increasing EU military integration and aligning us with countries like the United States, Britain and Germany, which have openly facilitated genocide in Palestine and countless other countries, moving us away from our proud history as a voice for peace and diplomacy towards a future as a tiny cog in a European military machine. The Government argument that removing the triple lock is not about undermining our neutrality but protecting our sovereignty is complete nonsense. The provisions of the triple lock ensure that when Irish peacekeepers are deployed abroad, it should only happen on the basis of international law and with international consensus, not as part of one side of a great power conflict.

Ministers constantly say this is about removing Russia's veto on Irish foreign policy, which is blatantly untrue. Russia, as a Security Council member, cannot veto a specific country's participation in a peace enforcement mission. Since the 1990s there has been no evidence that a Russian veto ever prevented Ireland from participating in a peace enforcement mission and there is no evidence that Russia has ever vetoed a peace enforcement mission to bring that mission to an end.

There is no doubt the UN needs to be reformed, and it is not functioning as it was first intended, but now is not the time for us to abandon any belief in international peace and run to grab our rifles. Our strength is in our reputation as diplomats, peacekeepers and peace builders. As a small country, our strength will never be military. Ireland, as a militarily neutral country, should be at the forefront of standing up for multilateralism and for diplomacy. We would be foolish to abandon this effort just so we can sign up to foreign military adventures.

If the Government is as concerned about sovereignty as it claims, the obvious thing it should do is put it to the people as to whether they actually favour abolishing the triple lock. Removing the triple lock will be a monumental change in Ireland's foreign policy and the Government should stop trying to brush over this ramification. I believe that Ireland's place in the world is as a country that stands up for international law and for peace. Our military neutrality is central to this and must be protected. If the Government thinks it has the winning arguments on this issue, it should put them to the people. Let us have a referendum and let the people decide. Trust the people to make the decision that is good for Ireland and I believe they will do so.

I understand that today it was agreed the Israel-Ireland match would be played here. I want to mention all the backroom staff, team, players, management and supporters. The Minister, Deputy O'Donovan, says he welcomes Israeli supporters here and that we should welcome them here because it is a regular team. Honestly, what planet is the Government living on to say this? If I suggested we play Russia in a friendly in the Aviva, I would be derided and slammed for it. On the same day that Israelis are sending Palestinian skulls to the staff in Al-Shifa hospital, the Minister is saying that Israel is a normal country, a normal state and a normal football team.

I would look to ensure there is security screening for Israelis coming to support or participate in that match. They should be vetted and anyone found to be participating in the Israel Defense Forces genocide in Gaza or war crimes should be arrested and dealt with. Of course the Government will not do this because it is spineless. This is the reality. It is afraid to upset the Americans and afraid to upset the Israelis. If Russians who had just left the front line on Ukraine were coming here, the Government would have no issue pulling them up, doing a security check and dealing with them in the proper manner but Israelis coming in, having participated in genocide and committed war crimes, will not be stopped. There will be no problem issuing them visas to come in.

Contrast this with the GAA kids from Palestine who were looking to come over and play football and hurling last year. They were blocked but the Government will not block genocidal participants. This is shameful. Is it any wonder the Government is not going to pass the occupied territories Bill or why we have not seen sight nor sound of it for a long time? Senator Black's occupied territories Bill has been watered down and the Government will not even bother passing the watered-down version. It is disgraceful. The Minister, Deputy O’Donovan, is trying to claim that Israelis are welcome. Honestly, those in up there in Government Buildings have lost touch. It is shameful that the Government would not hold Israeli participants in genocide to account.

I will make a few points in this important debate. In general, the State buying military equipment is not really like going down the central aisle of Lidl or Aldi. We are buying capability. Armoured cars, ships and anti-drone capability come with people, weapons, training, doctrine, locations, storage and, of course, time. They are human-resource heavy and I do not see a huge effort. I welcome that the numbers in the Defence Forces are moving in the right direction. Young people watching social media and TV see plenty of ads for the British army, the RAF, the royal marines and the British navy. We should be seeing them for the Defence Forces here before GAA matches, encouraging our young people. The Reserve Defence Force was wiped out by a Government or Department review but it was a very effective means of recruiting young men and women into the Defence Forces. It is something we should give consideration to.

I welcome the discourse here today. Notwithstanding the issues in the debate on neutrality and the triple lock, it is also important that we work collaboratively to restore a sense of pride among our Defence Forces personnel, equip them and give them the capability for the security of the State and peacekeeping. A UK Government report launched in January put out the proposition that climate breakdown and ecological breakdown are the biggest global security threats right now. We are all talking about security threats but climate breakdown is probably the biggest one and probably the cause of many of the conflicts we see now.

My late dad, Terry, served three tours of duty in the Congo. At the time in the 1960s, we had the capability to send out over 1,000 troops. Today, we struggle to put out 300 on the ground. My dad served 37 years in the Defence Forces. He was very proud of his service but also deeply concerned about how it had been ignored by successive governments.

I will come back to the issue of climate resilience and the weather patterns we are having here. This is about dual capabilities, buying equipment and providing aid to civil authorities Our Defence Forces and our Naval Service should be given the capability to deal with the issues around the storms we have had and the increased frequency of storms. During my term of office we had fires in our national parks and we had to bring in helicopters from Scotland. While we are purchasing equipment, and I welcome the increased investment in equipment, we should give consideration to supporting the likes of the National Parks and Wildlife Service to maintain the assets of the State. This is the property of the State. Our national parks, our maritime area, our marine protected areas and our nature reserves are all equally important to the security of the State.

I thank the men and women of Óglaigh na hÉireann because it has a proud history and a proud tradition. I feel very proud of my father and that we have a family tradition in the Defence Forces. I urge the Minister to work across government to ensure that our Defence Forces have the capability to carry out their functions effectively and diligently, and that we have the personnel and the numbers, particularly in the marine area and the Naval Service, to do this work effectively. I add my praise to the men and women of the Defence Forces, particularly on their overseas missions, of which we have a proud tradition in my family.

We are speaking about defence, something we have debated a few times. I would suggest that at some point it would be good if we were to have statements on peace. We have statements on defence and security but something we do not have or see enough of are statements on peace and the work of peace. This is the area in which Ireland has the most to contribute, to which Ireland can bring the most and in which Ireland has the record and credibility internationally.

I will follow up on something Senator Clonan said.

I will discuss expenditure and then move to the triple lock.

It has been a choice to have very poor rates for cadets. It has been a choice to have poor pay and conditions for those working in the Defence Forces. That is a choice that has been made by the State during many years of budget surplus. It is important to be very clear that everybody has called for an improvement in terms and conditions for those working in the Defence Forces, yet it has not been delivered. Nothing about the triple lock or those who talk about peace have in any way inhibited it. That option has been there for the State for a long period. Even while we have had a slow creeping forward on the pay, conditions and terms for those in the Defence Forces, vast amounts have been going into the military industry and Ireland is underwriting huge expenditure in this area.

I want to highlight a couple of key points from the finance committee report, which is an agreed report; it is not me saying this. It is the finance committee. Members highlighted serious concerns about the €800 billion that is planned to be spent at EU level.

I think it is €18 billion.

It can be broken down into the different points. This was the ambitious target that was set. It can be broken down in terms of parts and aspects. What was being examined by the finance committee was Security Action for Europe, SAFE, and the proposals from the Commission. We heard from the Commission. Its representatives spoke to us for an hour. There is an intention to redirect common investment away from areas such as just transition and climate action. We know that the one guaranteed security threat that we face globally is climate action. The intention is to redirect money out of funds that had previously gone to climate action. That goes right down to those LIFE payments that go to farmers around the country. That money will now go into a competitiveness fund, competing against military expenditure on things such as drones. There are also the larger areas of the multi-annual financial framework and our social and cohesion funding. We in Ireland know the importance of social and cohesion funding. It is the actual underpinning of peace. What builds peace is working on, and investing in, social cohesion at a time when we have seen, for example, extreme moves to the right in many parts of Europe. Social cohesion is badly needed.

We also saw where the money is going. This again is, in particular, in terms of the loans that Europe and Ireland are underwriting. For those who are concerned about the positions that Hungary and others have taken, €16 billion in loans has been given to Hungary. That is €16 billion in military expenditure by Hungary being underwritten by Ireland and the other member states. These are facts. They are in the finance committee report. They were given to us by the European Commission. We have a breakdown, we have a grid and we know where that money is going.

We also know that money being underwritten by Ireland and others through these loans is going to cluster munitions. It was confirmed that the money can go to cluster munitions. We know that, sadly, many of our colleagues in Europe have withdrawn from the anti-personnel mine convention or, in the case of Lithuania and Finland, have withdrawn from the Convention on Cluster Munitions. That convention was negotiated in Ireland. These are key areas of expenditure we have to be asking about but I do not have time to go into further detail. I urge a reading of the finance committee report on defence spending.

Let us get back to the question of the triple lock. The word "peacekeeping" has been used again and again. We need to be clear what the proposal is. The proposal is not solely in relation to the UN Security Council. There have been strong calls for Ireland to take a strong stance on Uniting for Peace and to make use of the Uniting for Peace mechanism within the General Assembly. That mechanism is under way. No caveat states that these are only deployments that will happen in situations where the Security Council and General Assembly have refused to act. This is a bypassing of the system and the Security Council. It is not an additional action that comes afterwards. It is a bypassing of the United Nations at a time when the UN is being systematically undermined, including by measures such as the Board of Peace, which is, effectively, a colonisers' club to which the EU has, sadly, sent a delegate.

The other point that must be noted in the context of the removal of the triple lock is that there is a proposal that is not about peacekeeping. It is also about strengthening international security. They are looking to bypass the UN process. This is, as I said, not about adding a safeguard that comes after a failure to secure permission for peacekeeping from the Security Council and the General Assembly. The intention is to directly move towards an alternative way of deploying troops internationally. That is because it is not solely for peacekeeping. The Bill is explicit. It also includes strengthening international security, whatever that might mean, as a reason. We already had exclusions where there were abductions or issues with securing an embassy. All of those were already there as exemptions. This is allowing the large-scale deployment of Irish troops by the Government without recourse to the UN for reasons of strengthening international security. This is from an Irish Government that is unwilling to say "Boo" on the areas where it could make a difference, such as international law. If Ireland wanted to be impactful, we would be the champions for international law right now and would be bringing that through. We would be the hardest regulators of those who have sown and promoted disinformation, and of the digital sector, many of whom have been aligned in many ways. The US has two of the largest armies in the world, including Immigration and Customs Enforcement, ICE. That has not protected it from concerns relating to, for example, Russian influence. What protects us is the international rule of law.

I will make one last point, but I have so many. I see we are going to have new powers of inspection in the naval area. That is fine. Why are we not using our powers of inspection and boarding in respect of the flights we know are moving through Shannon Airport at the moment? We know that Palestinian prisoners have been taken through the airport. It does not seem that a waiver was sought for the weapons that may have been on board. Perhaps a waiver was given and we are unaware of it.

I will finish shortly. I have a tiny quote that is important. It is a simple one. It is from a former member of the navy, who was involved in Operation Sophia. The member had a baby in their arms, rescued from the Mediterranean Sea at a time when Ireland rescued 8,000 people in a single year, and stated, "At this moment, you are safe in my arms." The member also stated, "Making a difference is one of the reasons we all joined the [Defence Forces] and, in terms of making a difference, this was really second to none." Yet, in 2017 the Government moved, when former Deputy, Paul Kehoe was the Minister, from primarily humanitarian search and rescue operations to primarily security and interception operations. Ireland is losing the unique contribution that made people proud to be a part of our Defence Forces by losing ourselves in a military agenda that is, in fact, turning its back on our humanitarian contribution to the world. I urge us to look to our strengths and lean into them.

I am not our spokesperson on defence. I leave that to my esteemed colleague, but, coming from Kildare and knowing many of my friends, neighbours and community members who are members of the Defence Forces, I always take the opportunity to speak on these issues, which are important not just to my county but to my country. I thank those who are in the service because we depend on them in a huge way.

The last time I spoke about defence matters in the House was on 21 January when Fianna Fáil had its own motion on the Defence Forces and some of the changes that we would like to see. I am pleased that the Minister of State is here to take note of some of the elements that are well-aired. It is important to once again mention the 11 different recommendations that we have been making.

I will briefly go through the 11 recommendations from that motion.

The first was the introduction of the rank of lance corporal. Second was the examination of the introduction of the long-service increment scheme. Third was the implementation of the third strand of the working time directive; it is beyond time that was done. Fourth, it is important that a review of the duty pay system be carried out because having listened to many of those who are serving in the Defence Forces, I know this is causing a huge challenge and we have to look at everything we can to retain those who are in the service as well as recruiting more. Thankfully, the numbers are going up on an ongoing basis.

Fifth, we need improvements in initial cadet pay, which is the lowest in the Defence Forces and that is simply not equitable. Sixth wass the establishment of a specialist pay review body outside of local bargaining provisions to consider the appropriateness of current rates of technical pay to specialists. Again, that is really important for the retention of specialists within the Defence Forces. The seventh recommendation was the commencement of adjustments to pay and allowances as agreed under the local bargaining arrangements of the Public Service Agreement 2024-2026. Again, this is really important for retention.

The eighth recommendation relates to how Defence Forces chaplains and the Director of Military Prosecutions are not allowed to avail of membership of a representative association. That is certainly something we would like to see addressed. We would also like to see the ninth recommendation, namely, the appointment of an adjudicator to the conciliation and arbitration scheme for the Permanent Defence Force as well as supporting those in the Reserve.

The tenth recommendation relates to the disparity in pension entitlements for personnel who enlisted post 1994 and pre 2024, which needs to be addressed, and the 11th concerns an evaluation of the public service pensions Act 2012 with regard to its impact on retention. Members who have joined after 2013 face serious financial hardship in the first years of their retirement.

We would like to see all of those recommendations addressed. We know they are not going to be addressed overnight. I mentioned being from Kildare and having great pride in our Defence Forces. I want to mention the ONE, Óglaigh Náisiúnta na hÉireann, which does an incredible job in supporting those who have been members of the Defence Forces. We need to see more support for that body. The St. Conleth's branch of the ONE is going through the process of acquiring a house that will be a community centre for former members and will also provide some accommodation for those who are homeless. We need to have this brought through quickly, along with other projects the ONE is working on.

There are 104 residential units in the Curragh Camp. Of those, 63 are currently uninhabitable. In fact, when the Taoiseach was Minister for Defence, he ensured these were not knocked down. It is important that we start procurement to make these habitable because, like everywhere else, the cost-of-living pressure is huge for those living in the area, rents are so high and it is so difficult to buy a house in Kildare. That is something I ask the Minister of State to take on board.

The Minister of State is to respond at 3.20 p.m., so we are tight for time. Three more Senators have indicated. I know Senator Craughwell has been on the list for a while. Does everyone still want to speak?

I propose we extend the debate by five minutes.

I second that.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

I want to put something on the record. There has been a lot of talk here about the triple lock. There are many things coming in that legislation apart from the triple lock and I hope we will not find ourselves bogged down discussing something that is not related to our neutrality or our military non-alignment. If we think that is going to happen, it should be taken out of the legislation and let us have the legislation for the triple lock at a different time.

Today we launch the national maritime strategy. Have we put the cart before the horse? There is no national security strategy. A sequential process should be the maritime strategy. Why are we launching a component of the national security strategy when we should have launched the strategy first?

I often wonder when looking at Government whether there is any actual, credible, granular Government understanding of the polar opposites positioning in international security co-operation for Defence Forces, training and pre-operational capability development with Ireland having friendly-state troops and equipment deployed in Ireland for training purposes rather than an operational purpose. It is clear to me that within this House there is no understanding of the difference between an Executive and an non-Executive posture. The former, an Executive posture, would be in conflict with Article 29 of the Constitution. We hear a lot of talk of the French and the UK providing services or support to our security during the Presidency of the EU. I ask that we at least adhere to the Constitution. It is, after all, the will of the people.

I have to hand a copy of the failures to implement the recommendations from the Commission on the Defence Forces. We have the appalling situation where the Tánaiste made a statement that he had sought €3.4 billion for defence and that the Department of public expenditure had given him €1.7 billion. Who runs this country? Is it some civil servant over in the Department of public expenditure? Who is responsible for these decisions? We are looking at 12 human resource and career development issues, six structural command reform issues, five infrastructure issues, two special operations capability issues, two flexible service and welfare issues, one medical services issues, two pay and allowances issues, seven capability development issues and six Reserve Defence Force issues. Forty-three of them are unimplemented. I know these came long before the Minister of State was in office, but we have constantly brought to the notice of Government how the post-2013 pension is destroying the Defence Forces, An Garda Síochána, the Prison Service and the fire service. Who is going to take on the Department of public expenditure and tell it who runs this country? Is it that Sir Humphrey decides what will be done and what will not be done? I always believed and saw in my life that when the Minister said it was so, it was so.

A recent ruling by the European Committee of Social Rights deals with the issue of service personnel working on bank holidays, etc. There is no overtime. Will the Government commit to engage with the representative bodies on conciliation and arbitration and address the appalling vista whereby we are being ruled against in Europe is being ignored here in Ireland. It is simply not good enough.

My colleague Senator Gallagher referred to the cadets. The Government has increased the age for entry to the cadets to 39 years of age. Are we seriously expecting a 39-year-old to come in and join the Defence Forces for €26,000 a year? It is outrageous that we would consider that. It is €28,800 in their second year. A private soldier earns more than a cadet, who is a future officer of the Irish Defence Forces.

We have to look at the post-2013 pension urgently. We have to look at cadet pay urgently and, for God's sake, let us not go down the rabbit hole of the God damn triple lock as we try to pass legislation in this country. Everybody should go away and read what neutrality means before they start conflating it with something. Would we go down the road and ask our next-door neighbour whether we can leave the kids out to play? It is absolute absurdity. Let us get rid of the triple lock, for God's sake.

Before Senator O'Reilly speaks, I welcome the guests of Senator Garret Kelleher from Scoil Eoin. I understand the students do not have any homework for the rest of the week after their visit to the Seanad and the Dáil.

I also welcome the guests of Deputy Malcolm Byrne. At a rough guess, they will have to do their homework. I call Senator O’Reilly. I ask him to be brief.

I welcome the Minister of State. As I welcome him, I acknowledge that we recently had a good trip together around schools in Cavan where he did a good presentation on Ireland’s Presidency of the EU and its implications. It is important we engage our young people in the democratic process. I also acknowledge the proactive approach of the Minister, Deputy McEntee, in this Ministry and the leadership she is giving on defence.

There are a number of heartening comments in her statement. I will allude to them and then I will make some general observations. The capital funding allocation has increased by €159 million to €300 million in 2026, an increase of 113%. It was €159 million in 2022. The current non-pay allocation has increased by €127 million to almost €277 million in 2026, an increase of 84%. The current pay funding allocation has increased by €52 million – this is an important matter I will come to it in a moment - to almost €598 million in 2026, an increase of 10%. Those are heartening and necessary increases. If you do not put your money where your mouth is in this debate, it is a facade. It is important we have the capital and pay increases.

There are a number of things needed in the Defence Forces. Recruitment is improving but it needs to improve a lot more. That was alluded to by Senator Wilson. Looking at numbers, we need to increase them considerably. We need another 1,500 at minimum and an additional 300 for this year. It is important to get recruitment but that will only be achieved if it is attractive. While these are patriotic people by definition, they cannot be expected to work for nothing or for comparatively low wages. It is important their pay improves. There is room for improvement on their medical insurance. I ask the Minister of State to respond or take note on that. We could do more to provide medical insurance for them.

Non-commissioned officers and senior non-commissioned officers need an extra pay increase. There are imaginative ways being looked at to do that. It could be a signing-on bonus or a long service increment. That matter is under discussion at the moment. The Minister of State might provide an update on whether we are making progress in that regard. It is important.

The pay element is a huge. As well as the national pay agreement, we have to use imaginative methods to make it attractive to join our Defence Forces. Both recruitment and human resources approaches to recruitment have improved. All of that is good. While the numbers have increased by up to 200 recently, it is not enough. They must increase to 9,500. We need to improve pay and conditions as well as career opportunities and development.

I welcome the maritime strategy. To protect underground cables, it is important that we collaborate with the UK and France. Other countries have as much a vested interest in these underground cables as we do. Senator Wilson made a good point earlier about looking to industry and the people who own the cables to make a contribution, if that is needed.

Young Fine Gael produced a defence strategy recently in which it calls for €50 million to be spent on new innovation developments. It seeks a €50 million defence innovation fund to look at new technologies to deal with cybercrime, cyberattacks and the issue of the underground cables, etc. We need innovation. I welcome Young Fine Gael making that request. It should be the case.

We need a well-resourced army. We also need to pay attention to our Reserve Defence Force, which is strong in my area. I want to see it supported. In his response, I ask the Minister of State to comment on the RDF and where we are going with it.

In summary-----

I thank the Senator. His time is up.

-----we need a well-resourced-----

We are under time pressure.

-----Army with good pay and resources. I will leave it at that.

I welcome the Minister of State. I will make one contribution, although I would love to say many things. Carrying on from where Senator O’Reilly left off, the numbers in the Reserve Defence Force have fallen to a pitiful amount. In my experience and lifetime, there were in excess of 20,000 people who could, if asked by the State, bear arms or turn out for the security of the State. They could use their military training and experience to support the State. It is extremely naive to think this country will never have a security crisis again. When that time comes, it could arise out of Northern Ireland, a border poll or Farage becoming Prime Minister of the UK and loyalists responding in a particular way. We could have a crisis on our hands very quickly. Successive Governments – I am not making party political points – have effectively collapsed the capacity of reservists in this country to come out, bear arms and serve the State.

It is easy to spend €600 million on armoured personnel carriers. You just put in the order and they arrive. It is easy to order a radar system; the French will deliver it as soon as they are asked. Getting people into the reserve and re-establishing it to 15,000 or 20,000 people who could serve the State is the difficult bit. In the context of what happened with the Garda Reserve, the Civil Defence and right across the board, failing to engage ordinary men and women in serving their country has been our biggest failure. That is the difficult bit for the Government and the Department of Defence. Numbers matter.

I call the Minister of State. He has ten minutes.

I may not take all my time. Hopefully, I can answer many of the questions that have been raised. I thank Senators not only for their contributions and insights, but for having an ongoing focus on issues of security and defence. It is important. I acknowledge references made in different guises to the implementation of the recommendations of the Commission on the Defence Forces.

The security landscape has changed significantly in this country since this report was published. Yesterday, we marked the fourth anniversary of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine. I trust that all Members will join me in condemning the brutal and clearly illegal actions of Russia and expressing total solidarity with Ukraine. Against the backdrop of the global instability arising from the war in Ukraine and elsewhere, we have made some progress. A total of 54 of the 130 recommendations have been completed. There is more to do. There is no question about that. It is important that there be parliamentary scrutiny and oversight to keep the pressure on. I have confidence that the structures put in place will aid the successful delivery of the transformation of our Defence Forces which, as Senators have said, is badly needed. Capital funding has increased significantly and it will increase further.

As Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs and in the Department of Defence, I am acutely conscious of the work under way in preparation for the forthcoming Presidency of the Council of the EU. Questions have understandably been raised about the security aspects of the Presidency. From my meetings with ministerial counterparts across Europe and my observation of the scene, Ireland is not immune to threats by bad actors, nor are we alone in battling them. During the recent Danish Presidency, we saw the temporary closure of Copenhagen Airport due to incursions of its airspace. In Lithuania, Vilnius Airport was shut partially because of the incursion of balloons from Belarus. This is happening all the time in highly militarised countries, in some respects. Lithuania is certainly one such country.

In advance of our Presidency, the Government has prioritised the delivery of counter unmanned aerial systems capabilities for the Defence Forces. We secured a Supplementary Estimate to accelerate that. One of the key defence priorities of the Government is to ensure the operational capacity of the Defence Forces is maintained and developed in line with the decision to move to level of ambition 2, LOA 2, as defined in the Report of the Commission on the Defence Forces.

We will look at the issue of radar, primary radar, the ground-based air-defence systems and of course the maritime radar. The work is ongoing. This is a major project for us. However, it is a foundational project for us to allow us to have the capacity to build on that. A contract has been awarded for sonar to monitor subsea activities. This is really important. References were made to the maritime strategy, which was launched today and has been long promised.

There are capability gaps. We have never made any bones about that. We absolutely acknowledge them. Crucially, we are acting to close those capability gaps. There is investment and we are continuing to invest and to put in place state-of-the-art systems for conducting the monitoring and surveillance activities in the air, on the surface and below the sea as well.

The triple lock has been a big feature of the debate today. In reforming the triple lock, the Government is delivering on a programme for Government commitment. That was agreed following the 2024 election. It was in our manifesto and the mandate was given by the electorate. The triple lock is quite simply no longer fit for purpose. It is not sustainable for us to continue to outsource the approval process for the overseas deployment of our own military personnel to members of the UN Security Council. Sinn Féin gave a very stout defence of Russia's apparent lack of vetoes over the past couple of years but we have not seen any new peace missions agreed by the UN Security Council either. We have seen the effective ending of UNIFIL in Lebanon by one member of the UN Security Council. That is a fact. That is the contribution that Ireland is most famous for. It was ended by one country, one member of the UN Security Council.

I listened to Senator Higgins when she gave the example of Operation Sophia, which is now called Operation Irini, and I did not disagree with what she said. However, we were prevented from joining that operation for one year because it started as an EU mission and did not have a UN Security Council mandate. We actually could not join that operation until it got a UN Security Council mandate, about a year later. While the Senator is correct when she talks about the humanitarian functions not being prioritised, that mission is complying with an EU decision and a UN Security Council mandate to prevent weapons coming in from Libya. However, it carries out tremendous humanitarian work on the Mediterranean to this day. I am very proud of the Irish men and women who take part in Operation Irini, but they were not able to take part until that mission got a UN Security Council mandate even though it was operational as an EU mission at the time. Indeed, when I was there last year certainly, there was considerable doubt as to whether the mission would be continued. It has been continued so far, not always for one year. The day the UN Security Council mandate is lost to that mission is the day we leave it automatically under current legislation. However, it would still continue in operation as an EU mission. The work that Senator Higgins wants more of, which is happening to some extent notwithstanding it is not within the direct terms of reference, is part of a mission that we would just have to leave, and say goodbye to, because of this legislation.

I do not think it is correct to talk about the role of the General Assembly in uniting for peace without also looking at the Security Council, which is a binding institution. It binds countries under international law; the General Assembly does not. In any event, if you were to look for some resolution of the General Assembly, as has been proposed by Sinn Féin, you would have to canvass all the members of the General Assembly, including Israel and other countries that have been criticised in the House today. We need to remove this. We are unique among neutral countries in having this requirement. They want their governments and their parliaments to have these decisions. Generally speaking, people go with UN missions or EU missions or OSCE missions. It is very common for neutral countries in Europe to take part in those various missions with or without a formal resolution of the UN Security Council. We have to get real about this. We have to protect our own sovereignty. We have to make our own decisions.

I welcome this debate. I look forward to further discussions. We want to maintain our proud tradition of peacekeeping but we want to secure the country as well. We have an obligation - the Government and the Dáil are acutely conscious of this - to protect our citizens and protect our territory. That is the fundamental role. Yes, we are bound by Article 29 of the Constitution, which talks about "the ideal of peace". It is literally written into the law of this land that we are bound by peace and the objective of "friendly co-operation amongst nations". That is what we do. However, we can do that by having permission from our Dáil and permission from our Government to send troops to keep the peace. At the same time, we can work night and day to build up our Defence Forces and build up our capabilities so that we can protect the State and protect our people from the various threats we face. I think people are becoming more and more aware of those threats.

Recruitment is improving. We have had significant increases in the numbers of people applying. We have also had significant increases in the retention rate, which is very important. Improvements were made to pay following the implementation of a number of pay-related recommendations from the Commission on the Defence Forces. Recruit pay, for example, on completion of training, which takes about 24 weeks, starts at €42,500 in year 1. Following this month's public sector pay increases, the starting salary for a lieutenant, which is the entry rank for a graduate cadet on commissioning, is €51,748. For a second lieutenant, which is the entry rank for a school leaver cadet on commissioning, it is €46,359 while that person is in full-time education.

Senator Gallagher raised the issue of cadet pay. I am aware that a business case for increasing cadet pay was received by the Department and the matter was raised with the Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation. To be clear, there are no officials telling people what to do. This is a political decision, a Government decision. However, the position of the Department is that the request must be addressed within the parameters of public pay policy with local bargaining available as an option to address sector-specific claims. When the Minister met with the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers, RACO, recently, it raised the issue with her and the Minister agreed to give further consideration to that. RACO will continue to engage with the Department and the Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation.

Senator Gallagher asked about our counter-unmanned-drone system, or C-UAS, capabilities. Following the Dáil approval of the Supplementary Estimate that I brought to the committee, which provided for the accelerated procurement of C-UAS capabilities, contractual arrangements have been put in place to enable delivery of these capabilities during the first half of this year. In line with these arrangements, training of military personnel is already under way and the further roll-out of the required capabilities will continue to be accelerated this year.

There is a lot happening in this space. I suggest that a lot has to happen. I will address one further point which was raised by Senator Higgins. This figure of €800 billion, which unfortunately is in the Oireachtas finance committee report, is not an accurate figure. The €800 billion in relation to spending on defence includes €650 billion of an easement of EU rules on borrowing by member states. That is borrowing by member states in breach, you might say, of the traditional borrowing rules. The EU has allowed them to do this for defence. The other €150 billion is a loan, effectively, to member states that they have to pay back. The €800 billion figure is not a reflection of anything that the EU is spending. The EU is not a military alliance. The member states are asking the EU to help them to defend themselves and to inform their own defence policies.