We will resume now. I thank the Minister of State for rushing back. Before we start our next item, I welcome Bernie and Eamon Smith and Cyril and Lavina Jordan, who are guests of Senator Nessa Cosgrove. They are very welcome and in very good hands. Senator Cosgrove is always welcoming and is one of more hard-working Senators. Everyone is very welcome. I call Senator Sarah O'Reilly.

I, too, welcome our distinguished guests from Cavan, which is a great county.

I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House today. I was concerned last week when I saw the proposed launch of the special inclusive classes. When we get into the detail of what this will entail, it really feels like the Department is trying to give classroom overcrowding a new name. These special inclusion classes will see autism classes double in size. The class will go from having six students to 12, with no increase in staff or classroom allocations. If it is considered best practice to have one teacher and two SNAs per six children, then how is this proposal not simply a failure to meet those standards? The reality is that two SNAs are not enough to deal with six students going between an inclusive class and various mainstream practical classes in schools, especially if autistic students are allowed to choose their subjects in the same way as mainstream students do. Will the Minister of State provide clarity on this? If the Department believes these inclusion classes are the best approach, then why is it not being used in schools across the country as is? My gut, and we should all listen to our guts, tells me that after the recent SNA debacle, the Department is now worried about the staff capacity to open new autism spectrum disorder, ASD, classes and is framing this as an exciting launch instead of acknowledging the reality that it is doubling up classrooms.

Teachers and SNAs are already struggling with burnout and increased workload. They are doing more with less. Is the Department asking them to double classroom sizes? Is that what is happening at the minute? I was surprised that there would be no additional funding for classroom extensions or staff. This is not an existing proposal. It is just the Department window dressing. My office spoke to the principal of St. Aidan's school in Cootehill, County Cavan. The school has been waiting five years for an extension and only got confirmation that the stage 2B report was completed about two months ago. St. Aidan's agreed to adapt one of its mainstream classrooms to create an ASD room. In the process, it lost vital space needed for the mainstream school students. What is more ludicrous is that when the school applied for an additional ASD room, the request was denied, but since then it has been asked by the Department to create a second ASD room. How can the Department explain or justify the rationale for refusing additional accommodation only to turn around and ask schools to magically create another classroom? Instead of progressing extensions and increasing staff allocations, the Department's approach seems to consist of sending letters to schools telling them to make space where there is none.

Teachers and SNAs are finding themselves in impossible situations. These inclusion classes are, in my opinion, nothing more than a clear attempt to sugar-coat increased class sizes. Is it not a major failing that schools and parents feel the Department is totally disconnected from what is going on in schools at the moment?

Before the Minister of State commences, I welcome guests of Deputy Duncan Smyth from Swords Community College. They are all welcome and the tradition is that they do not have any homework for the rest of the week. I hope they enjoy their visit.

I welcome all the distinguished guests to Leinster House. I hope they enjoy their day. It is always a special day when students or anybody visits the seat of Dáil Éireann and Seanad Éireann. I hope they enjoy their day and whatever benefit is in it. I did not realise that the Acting Chairperson had the imprimatur to give homework off. It is something I must look up the Standing Orders for.

The Minister of State does not get homework off.

Would there be any chance that-----

He has to do his homework.

I thank Senator O'Reilly for raising the issue. In the first instance this year, as opposed to other years, we have started the sanctioning of classes much earlier. We have 432 classes sanctioned already.

That is because we had an earlier date for notification of 1 October. An awful lot of forward planning is being done in relation to special education and over the past number of years, the amount of money that has been put into primary and post-primary education has been absolutely huge by any yardstick. It is also meeting the need within our school communities and our cohort of students. Families have been notifying the NCSE of their special education requirements for students.

The issue the Senator raised relates to the five schools that were announced last week. It is hugely important that we make sure we are doing our best to have the best possible outcomes for students. At post-primary level, a lot of a lot of integration and inclusion happens. When we announced the classes last week there was a headline straight away that we were not putting the staffing resources with the students. However, in any of the enhanced classes that we have, six students will be getting 1.5 teachers and two SNAs at post-primary level. If there is an additional six students, they will be getting an additional 1.5 teachers and two SNAs. There is absolutely no reduction in staffing or the staffing ratios that are in place for students with additional need in special classes. That ratio was set many decades ago and is sacrosanct in that it is Government and departmental policy.

Some comments were made on Wednesday and Thursday of last week to the effect that we were not giving any staffing but nothing could be further from the truth. I note that some organisations corrected their comments when it was pointed out that we were giving the same staffing. We also want to make sure that we are supporting post-primary schools in particular with additional resources in terms of staffing for students. We have interacted with a huge number of principals and we have some great models of education being delivered in post-primary schools throughout the country. In a number of schools that I have visited myself I have seen the way they are delivering at post-primary level in terms of having a hub and having students going in and out of different classes. They have all said that we need to have the supports in place, be they teachers or SNAs. In each of the instances cited by the Senator, we are giving the extra teachers and SNAs. There is absolutely zero question about that. It is fundamental and vitally important that we reassure parents and students that there is absolutely no cutback whatsoever in terms of the teachers and SNAs that are being provided for children who are going into special classes. It is the same ratio.

In relation to a lot of the policy that we have been looking at over the last year or so, we are trying to determine the best model to ensure that we are equipping students who are going into special classes for a more fulfilled life. We have to look at the outcomes for children, both at primary and post-primary school, and on into adulthood, whether they are going on to further education or into the workplace and provide whatever supports are needed. This model has been very much welcomed by a number of the education partners. It is in its infancy but it is something that we are looking at to make sure that we are supporting children by having the support staff in place for the students. The same ratio applies. We are making sure that we have the support staff in place in order that that we can have the best possible model of integration into the future. We have a huge number of teams of both teachers and SNAs within the special education sector and we want to now look at how best we can make it as inclusive as possible

I thank the Minister of State for that comprehensive reply, which does address some of my concerns. If the ratio of teachers and SNAs to students is going to stay consistent, that is good but it is reasonable for people to assume that this is a move to increase students in ASD classrooms when the Department is not progressing planning and extensions for school accommodation and new builds.

I mentioned St. Aidan's, but Bailieborough Community School is in the same position. It is six years out from an extension being announced but is stuck at design stage 2b just like the other school mentioned. It is beyond a joke that Bailieborough, Kingscourt, Virginia and Cavan, all approved projects, are gathering dust. Teachers and principals are right to feel overlooked. Does the Minister of State see why schools and parents see this proposal as an attempt at overcrowding? That is just another word for it. The Department has been piling more onto teachers and school communities particularly those waiting five to ten years for additional classroom space.

I cannot accept that there is overcrowding. We are looking at how best to ensure teachers, SNAs and support teams are in place to encourage students and to make sure we are as inclusive as possible. Not every student can be mainstreamed but we need to make sure that where it is possible we have the best possible support in place. It is also taking a child with special educational needs through primary school and post-primary school and equipping them as best we can for life after school as well. That is the premise. There are challenges. We are putting in a huge amount of money - over €5 billion has been put into the school building programmes over the past number of years. In the coming years, €7.55 billion is to be put into it. We are working closely with school communities. The Senator mentioned a number of schools in her area. I can reassure her we are working with them. Our aim is to make sure we have special education provision in every community as locally as possible for the needs of the child and families into the future.