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Seanad
‹ An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Counselling notes privilege and waste

Summary

Senator O'Reilly highlighted the need to protect counselling notes as privileged material for victims of sexual abuse. Senator McCarthy then attacked public spending waste, citing the Irish Rail IT project and failed electric bus purchases.

Tonight in the Dáil, Deputies will be speaking on Report Stage of the Criminal Law, Civil Law and Defence (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2026. Within that Bill is a really important move to recognise counselling notes as legally privileged material. It is incredibly violating for victims of sexual abuse to have their counselling notes essentially handed over to their abuser and their legal team. I was listening to Paula Doyle on "Liveline" yesterday and I commend her courage in speaking out about the abuse she suffered at the hands of her partner. She spoke about the trauma she faced when her counselling notes were used against her by the defence. In her counselling sessions, she had described how difficult she found hugging her children because of how defiled she felt after years of sexual abuse. In court, they used this to try to frame her as a bad mother withholding affection from her children. It is absolutely disgusting that a moment of vulnerability in a private counselling session could be used as a way to discredit her as a loving mother. On "Liveline", Paula said "he took my body and then the State took my mind and handed it over to him." The very least a victim of abuse should expect is to have their innermost thoughts and feelings safeguarded from their predator. While I welcome the progress made in this Bill, I do not believe it goes far enough. The Minister indicated there would be a statutory presumption against disclosure of counselling notes but that is not what the legislation actually provides for. It leaves open routes for disclosure that many survivors fear could continue the very practice the Bill seeks to address. I am hoping the Minister will reconsider this when he comes before the Seanad.

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Over the past number of months, there has been a lot of waste, mismanagement and a lack of accountability when public money is squandered. Last week, we learned of the Irish Rail IT project, which cost in excess of €50 million. This was €50 million in taxpayers' money. Before that, of course, it was about a bicycle shed and a printer room here and a bicycle shed in Kerry. We now have an extraordinary example, which has been released in the past two weeks, about electric buses. A total of €38 million of taxpayers' money was spent on these buses and they cannot be used because there are no chargers for the buses. Yesterday, €7 million was disclosed as being spent on storing the €38 million buses. How does that happen? Who signed off on it? Where is the accountability because the public is entitled to ask questions about what is happening to its money? Every euro that is wasted is a euro that cannot be spent on housing, healthcare, disability, etc. I am involved in the homeless sector. There are 17,517 people in emergency accommodation so people find it impossible to understand how we spent €38 million on buses that we cannot use. As somebody who is in business, I know that if I wasted money repeatedly, I would be held accountable. I am always asked to explain myself to my own staff, learn from the mistakes and put systems in place so they do not happen again. What frustrates people is the feeling that responsibility disappears into a maze of agencies, Departments, etc., and the taxpayer is left on the hook again to foot the foot the bill. I want to acknowledge Deputy Albert Dolan. His system for stronger oversight regarding where public money is going is a good thing. Public money cannot be seen as monopoly money. It belongs to the people of Ireland and they deserve better.

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