The Minister, Deputy Lawless, is most welcome to Seanad Éireann. I thank him for being here for the first Commencement matter, which is by an Seanadóir Curley.

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht teacht isteach inniu don rud thar a bheith tábhachtach seo. The Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland, RCSI, states that the HPAT has no validity and no predictive validity on future attainment in medical courses. The issue is the validity of the HPAT as an entrance exam to medical courses in Ireland. It is the only example we have of a State exam where young boys outperform young girls, the reason being it was a 1960s construct created by men for predominantly young private school boys who would go on to do medicine in college. It also, unfortunately, favours those who have the financial means to pay for tuition. There is a huge amount of evidence that those who get tuition before they sit their HPAT exam do significantly better when they sit it.

There are alternatives. The RCSI takes in, on average, approximately 400 students every year. Some 300 of those are international students who sit situational judgment tests and multiple mini interviews. That is already carried out in this country. The situational judgment test is a really good one. It tests interpersonal skills. In the modern day, it beggars belief that we do not have a system whereby we interview people to test their interpersonal skills before they go on to do one of the most important jobs anyone could ever do, which is to be a medical doctor or dentist, or any job where one has to communicate with patients in order to ascertain the best outcomes for them. The situational judgment test is the best predictor globally of a student's future medical performance. There is a company that provides it in Ireland. It is globally recognised as the best way of predicting future medical performance. In terms of the overall rationale for this, there are two main reasons we should do it. The first is equality of educational access and the second is that, inevitably, it would lead to a higher quality of doctors being available for us in this country, whom we would have to try to retain. I am very interested in the Minister’s views on whether or can move to a more modern way of doing the entrance exams.

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Seanadóir Curley as an tairiscint seo a thabairt isteach. Is ábhar tábhachtach é cinnte. I thank Senator Curley for raising this important matter regarding the HPAT exams and access to medicine more broadly. I acknowledge at the outset that there are very real pressures on students who aspire to study medicine and other very competitive healthcare disciplines. They are competitive courses and I recognise the concerns of students and their families regarding preparedness, access and the pathways available to them. I also recognise that the available supply of medical places continues to fall below demand and that, of course, creates intense competition and pressure on the system. There is an issue in that students can attain a very high level of academic performance and yet still fail to gain entry to their preferred place. The Senator raised a very important point regarding there being many different types of intelligence and purely academic focus not necessarily being the best indicator. There are other aptitudes that should be considered when weighing up entry to courses such as this.

As Minister, I am committed to ensuring we have an admissions system that is fair, transparent and robust, and equally to continuing to expand opportunities so that more students can pursue this type of place in the first place. In other words, we are increasing the number of course places available, including in the University of Galway, the University of Limerick, the technological universities and other places, on medical, pharmaceutical, veterinary and other professional courses which are subject to high competition for points.

The HPAT itself is independently administered by the Australian Council for Educational Research on behalf of the medical school. It is devolved to that organisation. Neither I nor my Department is involved in its operation because it is independent. However, I am aware that there have been concerns raised about the exam and procedure. I have listened to those concerns and I have spoken to the institutions about them. The institutions themselves have raised these issues and there are changes proposed for entry to medicine from 2027 on, which will include a rebalancing of the weight placed on leaving certificate results and HPAT performance. That is something the Senator is absolutely correct about needing to be done. It is something the institutions and I have taken note of and it is being worked on. The proposed changes will reduce the emphasis on the intensive HPAT preparation and refocus more strongly on leaving certificate achievement, keeping that assessment of aptitude as a marker in line with international best practice.

These changes will be of some assistance. The first year will be 2027 and we will continue to watch that space.

More broadly, I am commissioning a task force on CAO reform and what I call broad education, which means we are looking at a broad education where a student will be exposed to a variety of disciplines and subjects across arts and humanities, science and technology rather than just having a single deep dive into a particular area from day one. It is important that students have this more classical education, certainly in the early stages. I am commissioning a task force on that, which will allow Ireland to explore broader entry models in some disciplines, including the opportunity to build that wider foundation before specialising. I am also going to continue providing alternative access points into higher education with things like tertiary degrees where a student can attend a course locally for the first year or two before moving on to a more traditional university setting.

There are a number of measures under way in this space. I thank the Senator for his consistent interest in this area. I know he is the spokesperson for our party on this and he frequently raises these matters. I thank him for his contributions to developing policy in that area.

It is good news in one way that there is acknowledgement from the Department that there is an issue with the entrance exam system. I welcome that. The only bad news from the response is that the only thing worse than the HPAT is the leaving certificate. They are going to rebalance with more focus on the leaving certificate results than on the HPAT. There is a matrix called Cronbach's alpha - I discussed this with Dr. Muirne Spooner in the RCSI - that is used to test the validity of high-stakes exams that have strong consequences. The HPAT is one of the lowest scoring exams that can go through that system. They cannot even test the validity of the leaving certificate. It is so bad they cannot even put it through the matrix. I would be nervous about moving away from the balancing to rebalance more favourably on the leaving certificate than the HPAT because it is the worst type of exam. I have a bugbear with it and am trying to get rid of it in its entirety but that is a long project. In the meantime, that is the one concern I have with the response. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire.

That is a fair point. The Senator wants changes for the better, which is reasonable. The institutions have identified this issue. I have spoken to them about how the HPAT, for the reasons the Senator mentioned, is not necessarily the best valve with which to manage entry into these professions. They are refocussing on the leaving certificate, and I appreciate the issues he has raised with that. It is part of a wider rebalancing in having identified issues with the HPAT and how it was being leveraged. Perhaps it was intended to create fairness but it is having the opposite effect in some cases. That is one of the reasons they are rowing back on it.

I will take on board the Cronbach's alpha programme. It is something I can feed into. I have established that task force on broader education, which will look more widely at CAO reform, entry points into higher education, whether there is too much emphasis placed on a single exam, and when the students take up their place whether they can have that broader range of disciplines available to them. That will reduce pressure points in a general sense but will also provide an opportunity for students to sample different types of disciplines and have that greater familiarity before they make a move. That in itself will be a form of aptitude testing in the early stages. I will ask the commission to include the Senator's suggestions on Cronbach's alpha as part of that review.

I welcome guests of the Minister of State, Kieran O'Donnell, and of Deputy Mary Lou McDonald to the Gallery. They are all welcome.