I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, here this morning and I thank him for coming. However, I am disappointed that the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, is not here. I thank the Minister of State for taking this important debate. I want to raise the North-South interconnector again because, for farmers and landowners, this has been ongoing for so long. This project affects communities across Meath, Cavan and Monaghan, and, in the North, Armagh and Tyrone. There are people who have had this hanging over their heads for the past 15 years and it has been a consistent and persistent stress to the people who are involved along the route.

Planning permission for pylons was granted almost ten years ago, but here is the problem: EirGrid never sought approval for the access routes it would need to get onto the land. Now, ten years later, they are trying to sort those access routes out. One of the conditions of the planning permission was that the local authorities would approve the access arrangements. The Government is now putting huge pressure on these local authorities to get the conditions dealt with.

The worst part is that the people who are directly affected, the landowners, still have no clue where the planned access routes are. ESB and EirGrid have now submitted their finalised routes to the local authorities but many farmers who could be directly affected have not been given that information. They have had to use freedom of information requests to try to find out what is being planned on their own land. That is an absolute scandal and it should not be.

I have to ask the Minister - he is not here but maybe the Minister of State can answer - why has he not met with the North-East Pylon Pressure campaign group. These people have been raising concerns for the people affected for the past 15 years. They represent these landowners and they deserve to sit across the table from the Minister to get their questions answered and their concerns heard. The Minister met with the chief executives of Cavan County Council and the Monaghan and Meath local authorities, but refused a meeting with the councillors of Monaghan County Council who represent the people who are affected. Is the plan of action to pretend these people do not matter or the issue that they need to be listened to does not exist? Their rights are completely steamrolled.

For years, we were told that undergrounding was simply too expensive but if the Government tries to push this through without discussion, it will end up spending years in legal disputes with landowners. That means more delay and more cost. We have already seen legal challenges from landowners in the Supreme Court ruling on compensation in the case with a family in Cavan.

The focus seems to be on whatever is the cheapest way to build the line, but real focus should now be put on whether this infrastructure can be built without creating another decade of conflict, delays and court proceedings. I believe the Minister has not properly considered the undergrounding, and before we hear it is too costly or impractical, I point him towards the Kildare-Meath grid upgrade. EirGrid is proceeding with a 400 KW underground connection there. It is clear undergrounding is an option, but the Government expects farmers in Cavan and Monaghan to just put up and shut up.

I understand the Government's argument that the grid needs to be strengthened, which is reasonable and we all agree with that, including the landowners. However, I also know the people affected have been very badly treated and deserve a hearing, as well as to be across the table from the Minister and the organisation that represents its point of view.

I thank the Senator for raising this important topic. Unfortunately, as she is aware, the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, is currently chairing a European Council meeting of his own format. However, I am extremely familiar with this, not just as the son of a Cavan woman, but also as someone who has a considerable number of family members still farming across both Cavan and Monaghan who have been very active in this campaign for the entirety of its duration, even appearing in national newspapers at times. As the Senator can imagine, this has always made for interesting family dinners.

The North-South interconnector is one of the most important transmission projects we are currently undertaking as a State. Once complete, the project will provide a critical cross-Border connection point for our electricity system, further strengthening and integrating the electricity systems between the North and South. The project, once delivered, is estimated to deliver cost savings of €100 million per annum to households and businesses across the island.

As a transmission project, the North-South interconnector is being undertaken by EirGrid, which designs and operates the system. EirGrid is independent of the Government and the Minister, Deputy O’Brien, in the exercise of its functions. However, it is regulated by the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, which in turn is accountable to a committee of the Oireachtas. In accordance with the 2012 Government Policy Statement on the Strategic Importance of Transmission and Other Energy Infrastructure, "The Government does not seek to direct EirGrid and ESB Networks or other energy infrastructure developers to particular sites or routes or technologies". EirGrid, as the project developer, has determined that the project must be delivered as an overhead line, and the Government has accepted this expert opinion.

The notion of "undergrounding" the project has been comprehensively assessed on several occasions dating back to 2008, with corresponding independent reports published finding that an overhead line is the appropriate means of delivery. Most recently, in March 2023, the Government noted and published another independent report into the project which concluded that it would not be feasible to run the North-South interconnector underground, confirming that the findings of the 2018 report remained valid. However, public support is key to enabling delivery of the project and that is why it plays such a central role in EirGrid’s plans.

EirGrid, as project developer, has been and continues to engage with affected landowners and communities along the route. This is in line with what the Government expects of it and aligns with the 2012 Government policy statement. As Minister, Deputy O'Brien must operate within the regulatory and policy framework regarding the delivery of electricity infrastructure and as such, community engagement is a matter for EirGrid. This is a key point; it is the organisation’s responsibility. We often hear about how we need direct ministerial intervention, but sometimes Ministers have to have the ability to let a process go forward and get to conclusion in a proper way and as agreed. We cannot just tear up the rules every time we want to. We agreed the framework and we now have to let it take its course.

That is why in March of this year, EirGrid wrote to affected landowners along the project route, updating them on the project and offering compensation to those who will host the infrastructure on their land. It is, of course, vital that landowners engage with EirGrid on this process, and the Minister has asked all those who have received such letters to seek that engagement. However, while community engagement is a matter for EirGrid, that does not take away from the concerns of the local community. Local representatives have raised the concerns of the community with the Minister through representations, parliamentary questions and other democratic processes such as this debate.

That is why I am very grateful that the Senator has highlighted these concerns here today. I can confirm they have been heard by the Minister. However, these concerns cannot take away from the independently assessed position that an overhead line is the most appropriate means of delivery. Construction of the project as an overhead line has already commenced in Northern Ireland, with several of the required pylons already built. The Northern Ireland minister for enterprise, Caoimhe Archibald, and the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, have committed to delivering this project as an overhead line and it is the hope of the Irish Government that construction in the South will commence imminently.

The issue of undergrounding the project has been debated, assessed and determined not to be possible. Now, we must continue to move ahead with delivering the project, the savings and the improvement to our energy infrastructure it allows for.

The Minister of State said it was a necessary project. I do not think anybody disputes the importance of the infrastructure but it is about how it is delivered and how the landowners whose land it goes across are treated. Does the Minister of State accept that expert opinions differ? Doctors differ and patients die. There are expert opinions on both sides. Would the Minister of State agree it is unacceptable that farmers have to submit freedom of information, FOI, requests to find out where the access routes are on their land? That is not acceptable. I do not think any Minister could stand over that.

The organisation that represents the farmers and the people whose land this infrastructure goes over have not been sat down with or listened to. Nobody is listening to them. Everybody is talking to the councils, the councils talk to the Government, Ministers talk to EirGrid and EirGrid talks to ESB but nobody is speaking to the landowners this affects. The problem is the overgrounding. It can be undergrounded. Nobody is against the project. This is about how it is being delivered.

There are two or three critical issues to this. The Senator mentioned different expert opinions. If this was just a one-off, it was the first time we were discussing it, there were simply two different opinions and you would choose between the two, that would be one thing but this has been going on for 14 years. There has been repeated independent expert opinion, which has been accepted. That is the stage we are at.

When it comes to the level of engagement, community engagement is deliberately in place for EirGrid. It has written to all affected landowners and is happy to meet and engage with them. That is its responsibility. The Minister, Deputy O'Brien, has tasked it with that and that is what the legislation allows for.

The solution to this discussion lies in that level of community engagement. It is not about reopening the debate, but making sure that the project is done properly and appropriately, answers the questions the Senator highlighted and makes sure that compensation is delivered. There are a couple of matters we are still waiting for in terms of discharge of agreement from the local authorities. I am happy to write to EirGrid to say that is where the level of engagement must happen.