This meeting has been convened to consider the Revised Estimates for Vote 29, programmes A, B and C. I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and at the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment, Deputy Timmy Dooley, and his officials. They are all very welcome.

The proposed format of today's meeting is that we will deal with Vote 29 on a programme-by-programme basis. At the outset, the Minister of State will make an opening statement. There are three programmes and we will consider each of them separately, with questions from members of the committee. We can then have some brief closing remarks. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I remind members that in accordance with Standing Orders, discussion should be confined to the items constituting the Revised Estimate. I also remind members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I invite the Minister of State to give his opening statement.

I thank the Cathaoirleach for the opportunity to present the 2026 Revised Estimates for programmes A and B, and elements of programme C, of the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment. The 2026 Estimates in respect of subhead C8, which relates to foreshore issues; C9, which relates to marine spatial planning; C10, which relates to the Maritime Area Regulatory Authority, MARA; C11, which relates to planning advisory; and C12, which relates to the marine environment, were considered by the Select Committee on Fisheries and Maritime Affairs on 25 February. This is a follow-on from the Estimates process in December when the overall allocation of our Department was concluded in the Revised Estimates Volume, REV, process. The total gross Estimate for the Department this year is just under €1.068 billion, or €1.061 billion net. This amount comprises just under €233 million in current funding and just under €835 million in capital funding. Also included in the 2026 Estimates is €77 million of capital carryover from 2025.

The 2026 Estimate represents an 8% increase over last year's allocation. This significant increase in funding continues to demonstrate the Government's commitment to achieving a climate-neutral Ireland powered by clean energy and where our environment, society and economy can thrive. I will outline some key priorities across the climate action and environmental leadership, energy transformation and circular economy programme areas.

Over €154 million has been allocated to programme A, which equates to approximately 14.5% of the Department's overall budget. The funding supports climate action and environmental leadership, and includes licensing and enforcement monitoring, analysis and reporting on the environment, research and development, and the implementation of climate action measures. The programme provides for over €52.3 million for the Environmental Protection Agency. This is an increase of over €3.7 million, or 8%, in operational and capital funding for the agency to deliver its functions to protect our environment. The allocation includes funding for staffing resources across a number of policy areas, including the circular economy, climate change, licensing and energy security. Some €17.78 million is allocated for environmental and climate research, which includes €12.1 million for the Environmental Protection Authority's research activities in line with its published research strategy. In addition, funding of €3.19 million is allocated for the climate action and modelling group to continue its work in providing technical support for wider climate and environmental policy development. Over €27.7 million is allocated to our international climate commitments towards Ireland's goal of more than doubling its annual funding for developing countries to tackle climate change, bringing that to €225 million. Under the EU just transition fund programme, €21 million is allocated for 2026 projects with a further €46.8 million provided to partner Departments. Just over €17 million is being provided for climate initiatives, which include the climate action regional offices, the national dialogue on climate action and the local authority climate action training programme. That represents an increase of approximately €4.75 million for 2026.

On programme B, over €757 million has been allocated for the energy transformation programme. Of this, over €675 million is capital funding and will continue to support Ireland in achieving its high-renewable, low-carbon system to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions. The programme aims to ensure the continued, secure and reliable energy supplies necessary to support our economy and society on the pathway to net zero emissions.

A total of €34.9 million is provided to cover the salaries and operational costs of the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI. That represents an increase of 8% on last year's allocation. This funding will enable it to deliver on its wide range of programmes and grant schemes. A record €651 million of capital funding is allocated to the SEAI residential and community energy upgrade and support schemes, including the solar photovoltaic, PV, scheme and the delivery of the national retrofit plan. This includes €65 million carried over from 2025 for use in 2026. Of this amount, €558 million is carbon tax receipts and €16 million is funding provided under the regional development plan. Nearly €70.1 million is allocated to other energy efficiency programmes. That amount includes €12 million carried over from 2025. The various measures in this programme, administered by the SEAI, are aimed at improving energy efficiency, increasing the use of renewable energy and developing retrofit policy measures across the business and public sectors.

Over €14.6 million is provided for the HSE pilot energy and decarbonisation pathfinder project, which involves the deep retrofit of five HSE sites. This project, funded under the REPowerEU plan, is critical in terms of providing learning and experience to the HSE. In addition, €21 million provided under the Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund will continue to support the retrofitting and decarbonisation of our public sector building stock. The remaining €15.8 million in capital is provided for a range of supports for the business sector. Some €8 million is provided under the Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund for investment in offshore renewable energy data collection, which will assist in derisking future offshore renewable projects, resulting in greater competition, lower electricity prices for end consumers, delivery of Ireland's renewable energy targets and the decarbonisation of Ireland's electricity system.

Just under €32 million is provided for energy research programmes, including applied energy research and demonstration programmes and projects. The investment in innovative energy research projects is crucial in helping Ireland to transition to a clean and secure energy future.

Programme C relates to the circular economy. Over €156 million is allocated to programme C, circular economy development, to tackle environmental damage, manage waste, safeguard our natural resources and support the move to a circular economy. A total of €14.35 million is provided for Geological Survey Ireland services for geoscience projects, research and activities, including improved groundwater and drinking water supply, the supply of critical raw materials, tackling coastal vulnerability and geothermal energy development. Some €46.8 million is allocated to protect our environment through waste management initiatives and enforcement activities by local authorities. This represents an increase of approximately 30% on the 2025 allocation and includes €30.5 million for the remediation of environmentally degraded landfill sites.

Nearly €42.3 million is provided for the conservation, management and regulation of Ireland's inland fisheries resource. Of that allocation, €4.7 million is ring-fenced for the Loughs Agency, a North-South body. Over €1.6 million is provided for foreshore to support the regulation of the Irish foreshore as part of the pubic estate through the assessment and management of the consent process under the Foreshore Act 1933. Some €9.55 million is provided for the Maritime Area Regulatory Authority, the regulator of the maritime area. This funding will support the agency to deliver on its remit through assessing maritime area consent applications for the maritime area, granting marine licensing for specified activities, conducting investigations and prosecutions, and enforcing marine area consents, licences and offshore development consents. These subheads were considered by the Select Committee on Fisheries and Maritime Affairs on 25 February.

Appropriations-in-aid, which are income receipts of the Department other than from the Exchequer, are estimated at just under €6.76 million this year.

These receipts are mainly comprised of mining income, additional superannuation contributions payable by public servants and miscellaneous income.

I am happy to take questions relating to the Revised Estimates, excluding those subheads already considered by the Select Committee on Fisheries and Maritime Affairs last Wednesday.

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire Stáit. I remind members that, under Standing Orders, they should keep their questions to the Revised Estimates, as is the norm. We will start with programme A. When putting a question, I ask members to give the subhead within the programme that they are speaking about. We will deal with one subhead at a time to get through them.

I thank the Minister of State and our colleagues for coming in. I welcome the 8% increase in funding for climate action. That is great to see. It is important we keep climate on the agenda.

Many of my queries relate to programme A, climate action and environmental leadership. Priorities the committee has had in the past year or so and topics we have focused on included Lady's Island Lake, water management and waste management. That probably falls within climate initiatives. Is there specific funding for the proper management of our water bodies and ensuring the issues we have identified on Lady's Island, and which occur elsewhere, are being managed?

I understand that would not fall under this Department in terms of the funding that is provided for it. Wastewater issues would be handled by Uisce Éireann. It will have funding streams for that. That would be the Department of housing if it is a wastewater issue.

Yes, I think it comes through housing.

There is probably EPA funding in there as well. Grand, that is that.

The committee spoke of the potential ending of the EU LIFE project and spoke of biodiversity projects around the country. I would like to hear more about some of the biodiversity projects we are funding as part of this. Are provisions made in case that fund ends in the near term? Am I under the wrong heading again, or the wrong Department?

We do not have biodiversity.

The LIFE project was under the funding stream for last week on the marine side, so it is not here. I am sorry. I am not being evasive.

Deputy Ahern is at the wrong committee.

The only other question I have is, hopefully, under this Revised Estimate. It might be just transition. Is illegal peat extraction a matter for local government or the EPA? Are we doing anything on that?

Illegal peat extraction is not specifically under this unless it is for the EPA to address. It is a local authority issue. Again, that falls under the Department of housing.

Okay. It is interesting to see. We have a budget of over €1 billion but there are other moneys allocated within other Departments for the things this committee discusses.

That is correct.

For illegal peat extraction, bigger sites were matters for the EPA and the EPA is covered off here.

That is within this heading here.

The EPA is within this allocation.

Okay, I see that. That is me for now.

I had Deputy Byrne but he is not here. As there is no one else here to speak on programme A, we will move to programme B, energy transformation.

Before we take programme B, Deputy Ahern mentioned illegal peat extraction. The committee recommended that responsibility for all enforcement activities related to illegal peat extraction be given to the EPA. That is just something to be aware of. It does not affect the Estimates per se but it was a view of the committee that it all be moved to the EPA. Obviously there would be resourcing implications.

Can I ask a question on the just transition commitments, please? That is programme A, is it not?

Go for it.

The independent Just Transition Commission submitted its work programme and introductory report to the Minister in June last year. Does the Minister of State have an update on that? Why has the allocation gone down from €22.5 million to just under €21 million?

I am advised that, in fact, it has gone up. While it is not reflected here, money has been vired across to other Departments in the Votes. Other Departments are also contributing to this particular action. It is reflected in their Votes.

In their Estimates.

Yes.

It will be more than just €21 million.

I believe it is in the region of €46 million, on top of the €20 million that is already there.

It was just moved around.

Yes, while it is funded through our Department, the moneys are passed on to other Departments which have appropriate programmes in relation to that.

Funding for climate initiatives rises 39%, from €12.275 million to €17 million, without any detailed breakdown. Does the Minister of State have a breakdown? What initiatives are being expanded?

The local authorities get an extra €5 million to develop decarbonised zones. It is about opening of regional offices and there are a couple of initiatives in Dublin, Cork and Galway called mission cities. That is an EU programme involving exemplar projects to promote those initiatives.

If that €5 million for each local authority?

No, it is a total increase of about €5 million on last year. The Estimate for 2025 was €12.275 million; it is now €17 million in total. Capital in 2025 was €8.45 million and it is now €13.2 million, so it an increase of approximately €5 million across all local authorities. There is additional funding of €400,000 for four climate action regional offices to develop projects that support local authorities in implementing their local authority climate action plan. The increased funding will align with recommendations arising from the 2025 CARO review. There is €1.5 million to local authorities for project costs associated with those decarbonising zones I mentioned. We secured new European regional development funding of €2.5 million for local authorities in the northern and western region to fund local projects in their decarbonising zones. The Department is committing another €1 million to the funding of this in 2026. There is about €2 million to the three Irish cities participating in the EU climate-neutral and smart cities mission, namely, Cork, Dublin and Galway, to deliver projects which move them towards becoming climate neutral by 2030.

When the local authorities were in with us, we were talking about illegal peat extraction and they said they did not have the resources to-----

I understand that but that is a matter for the housing Department since it is the primary funder. To the best of my knowledge, no request has come to us in that regard.

The climate action plan for 2025 was published in April 2025 but we have not got the climate action plan for 2026 yet. In order that we can understand how this process works, do the Estimates inform the climate action plan or does the plan inform the Estimates? How does that process work? I would love to get an insight into that.

There is a chicken-and-egg element to it. While we may not have the climate action plan for this year, it will involve incremental progress on last year's allocation. That is generally the way the Estimates work. You look at the out-turn from the previous year, sections within the Department identify their needs and expectations for the following year and then that is agreed as part of the Estimates process. Sometimes, you will see expected demand moving further than it had before as the result of a new policy initiative. In that case, an additional quantum of money will be requested and negotiated during the Estimates process. From time to time, you will see a slight reduction. If more money had been provided the previous year than was necessary, based on the out-turn, that too may inform the decision to provide a lesser amount. That is how it works in general terms. In this instance, it is expected to be the same or similar, with the normal increase, although publication has yet to happen.

We will move to programme B, energy transformation. I again ask members to refer to a programme subhead in putting their questions.

I thank the Minister of State and his officials for coming in. In relation to the national retrofitting plan, there was a target for 500,000 houses to be retrofitted to a B2 BER standard or higher. That was supposed to be achieved by 2030. It was estimated that 70,000 homes would have to be retrofitted per year. The Revised Estimate provides for €583 million, which is an increase from €566 million. The 2022 national retrofitting plan listed planned allocations of €202 million for 2022, €291 million for 2023 and €641 million for 2026. We are way off the target of 70,000 homes per year, which is needed to get to the 500,000. Is that correct? If so, what are the Minister of State's plans to close the gap because it seems from the figures I have that we have only fulfilled 18% of the target to date? From the figures I have seen, it seems it is easier for upper- and middle-income householders to avail of the grants. I was at an Energywise briefing in Killarney on Friday. People from the SEAI were there. Apparently, the SEAI has asked the Department to revise the plans in order to target grants at rural dwellings - a lot of older people in rural areas rely on solid fuel - and lower-income houses. What are the Minister of State's plans to increase the numbers? Does he have any plans to target grants at lower-income and rural households?

The Deputy will see that the information we have provided mentions a carryover of €77 million. I am not sure what number the Deputy has but that document includes a breakdown of that €77 million carryover.

Is that on page 29?

It is at the top of page 29. It includes a breakdown of the estimated carryover.

Yes, I see that €77 million.

If the Deputy goes to the bottom, he will see that is broken down into €65 million and €12 million. Looking at programme B on page 30, it can be seen that this is an additional €65 million on top of the €576 million, bringing us to a total of €641 million available this year. That increase is in line with the carbon tax, which will see that number go up incrementally every year. That carryover reflects an underspend of €100 million last year. I can go through the reasoning behind that underspend with the Deputy. As I understand it, there was a softer take-up than was expected for some of the grants and there were a number of other reasons we did not spend as much as had been expected. Of course, we are committed to making Ireland's buildings more suitable and energy efficient. Retrofit programmes deliver permanent savings. The Deputy will know that the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, recently announced a new scheme to fund the partial upgrade of homes, principally windows and doors. This is for houses whose basic fabric will ultimately allow for heat pumps. We recognise that there are people who would do parts of an upgrade on a gradual basis and in a meaningful way that would ultimately result in their homes achieving a very high energy rating. As the Deputy has rightly identified, not everybody has that quantum of money available. Some may not be in a position to avail of these schemes. There are green loans out there that represent good value if you can afford to pay them back. That scheme is very much aimed at assisting those people who want to improve the efficiency of their homes but who wish to do so on a phased basis. We recognise that, while the moneys were there last year, the schemes were not taken up to the fullest extent.

That is because people did not have the seed money to add to the grants because they are from lower-income households.

I do not have research on that available to me right now.

Is the Minister of State happy with the level of take-up among lower-income families?

The warmer homes scheme is available to people receiving certain social welfare payments who meet certain criteria. As the Deputy will know, such people can have the entirety of a project funded. The total home energy upgrade target for 2026 also includes 11,500 fully funded home energy upgrades under the warmer homes scheme for households who are in or at risk of energy poverty. The budget provided a record €340 million for that scheme for 2026. For people on the lower end of the income scale, the warmer homes scheme will fully fund projects. We also recognise that there are others who wish to improve the efficiency of their homes. The best way to do it is incrementally rather than through an all-encompassing deep retrofit, which was the previous approach.

Where is the Department with regard to that target of 500,000 homes?

I will have to come back to the Deputy on our specific progress on that target.

Does the Minister of State think it will be met?

That is the purpose of changing the approach here. If we have identified that the moneys available for the schemes as they were constituted were not being drawn down in full, it is right and fitting to pivot towards a more incremental approach to utilise the capital funding available to the Department.

How much funding was provided for the warmer homes scheme last year?

We are targeting 73,000 homes this year, which is in line with the overall global target that was set previously.

With regard to the warmer homes scheme, the figures I have show that we delivered 8,139 upgrades last year. Does the Minister of State expect that figure to reach 73,000 this year?

No, 73,000 is the global number of homes for which works will be funded.

That is the global number of homes.

I mean the number across all of the schemes.

It is not just-----

Yes, I am speaking in terms of the global nature of the Department rather than the four green fields, as it were.

The three and half green fields. How is the Department going to address the long waiting times for vulnerable households who are waiting for upgrades?

Under the warmer homes scheme, the average waiting time from application to completion of upgrade works was 22 months in 2025.

This represents a decrease of an average of 26 months for homes completed in 2022, so we are making significant progress.

Okay, so does the Minister of State think we will get it to maybe 18 months?

We are working with the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI. As it builds capacity and competency in that regard, we will see the timelines reduce. The moneys the Deputy can see are available. It is not as if we are in any way stringing it out because the moneys are not available. We want to meet our commitments.

I am also conscious that there are significant pressures in the workforce generally as it relates to construction and there are competing interests. That is a challenge generally across the economy at a time when there is strong demand for housing, which we see, and then for the skill sets, which are similar in the construction sector in terms of the upgrade work to be carried out. It is a competing interest.

I am also conscious that work in some of our colleges, particularly the work that is being done at some of the technical universities and additional apprenticeship works, is about upskilling the workforce in line with commitments the State continues to make about the future workflows and available opportunities here. Based on this, the Deputy can see there has been a very strong Government commitment to get there for quite a number of years and, therefore, hopefully, that will attract more people in. I know work is being done on this.

In light of the illegal war initiated by-----

I am sorry; will the Deputy give me that again?

There are no energy credits included in the 2026 Estimates. Given the illegal war initiated by genocidal Israel and its poodle in America, why has the Government not given any energy credits seeing as petrol prices have gone up significantly already? I heard a constituent say oil they had ordered has gone up in price already, before it has been delivered. This is something at which the Government is going to have to look. Why was it not included in the 2026 Estimates?

Is the Deputy asking why the energy credits are not under a subhead?

Yes. That should be included in it.

The Deputy made two points, one of which is connected. I can go back on the budgetary issues, which have been addressed a number of times before in relation to acknowledging the higher cost of energy for households. Energy affordability is, of course, a priority for the Government. That can be seen in the measures we introduced in the budget. The Government approved an extension of the reduced 9% VAT on gas and electricity bills to 31 December 2030, saving households about €100 per year. Then, as the Deputy knows, we made significant changes on the fuel allowance payment, increasing it by €5 to €38 per week. That is an increase of 15%.

It is not meeting the price increase.

There is a list of things I can go through. However, the point the Deputy asked about was in relation to the instability or volatility in the international energy prices as a result of what has just happened. We would not have had a chance to factor that into the Estimates, but-----

Is the Minister of State seeking to bring a Supplementary Estimate?

It is way too early. I certainly will not be in a position to talk about that today. I will reflect what the Taoiseach said on the Order of Business whereby, of course, that can be looked at in due course when we see what happens. However, the significant increase in wholesale energy prices the Deputy identified is of concern. It is noteworthy, though, that wholesale gas prices remain well below the levels seen in recent years even with the volatility in the last day or so. It is probably too early to see where that goes. As the Deputy rightly identified, the increased cost of gas internationally has a direct impact on the cost of electricity at the wholesale level. Retail electricity suppliers in Ireland purchase energy in bulk ahead of time. As the Deputy knows, that is the practice of hedging, which helps to protect customers from day-to-day volatility. We saw this in practice in recent years, particularly-----

The day-to-day volatility, though, happened the minute the war started.

I am sorry; will the Deputy let the Minister of State finish, please?

We saw that in practice in recent years when supplier hedging reduced the impact to final customers from the higher wholesale energy prices following the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Notwithstanding that, I accept that gas prices are considerably higher than they were prior to the invasion. It has meant a more gradual increase in prices, for sure, and it has been slower to come down than we would want, but both the Department and the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, will continue to monitor the current geopolitical situation as well as the impact on energy markets. While the Deputy is right to identify it as an issue, it is certainly too early to see what the response will be. The Department obviously remains open to reviewing this on a case-by-case basis.

Okay. I thank the Minister of State.

It is great to see the focus on retrofitting and the huge amount of capital expenditure being put on that, at €640 million, or an 8% increase. It is important to note that €548 million of that €641 million is coming from carbon tax receipts. This was discussed in the Dáil earlier. The €558 million is not our total from carbon tax receipts. Will the Minister of State expand on where the rest of them are being spent, if that is not beyond the bounds of this?

A number of other schemes that are available are funded by that. The Department of social welfare receives money to assist households who are affected by energy poverty and provides supports there. The Department of agriculture also receives moneys from the fund. This reflects the Deputy's point earlier. I remember being parked of the other side of this committee, which was then chaired by Deputy Hildegarde Naughton. We were very strongly of the view, and I think we see it play out now, that there should be an hypothecation of carbon tax. It was very clear that it was a struggle for some political parties, particularly those in opposition, one of which was my own at the time, to countenance or support an increase in any taxes. It is never an easy thing to do from an Oppostion perspective, but we did so on the basis that the commitment by Government, which was stitched into the legislation, was that the funding would be hypothecated and ring-fenced for capacity or for programmes aimed at reducing emissions. It provides us now with a strong basis even when things and economic certainty change. It ensures that there is a pool of money that is ring-fenced for exactly those measures. That is a policy we can see has aged well. That one has anyway.

The Minister of State can confirm it then-----

As I understand, the Department of public expenditure publishes a paper on the use of carbon tax each year as part of the budget. That document from the Department sets out the full breakdown of it. We can ensure that the Deputy gets that.

I would love to see that. I thank the Minister of State.

Maybe the officials could circulate that to the committee.

We will get that to him.

To be crystal clear, 100% of carbon tax continues to be ring-fenced and spent on these very important sustainability projects.

We will get that to the Deputy.

I thank the Minister of State. I have one other quick query on this section, if he does not mind. In relation to offshore wind and, again, that was something we focused on as a committee this year, €8 million is provided under the Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund for investment in offshore renewable energy data collection. However, that is separate to funding being provided under section C to the Maritime Area Regulatory Authority, which I thought would be doing that data collection. Who is doing it and who is that money is for?

When the State identifies an auction process or puts a particular offering to the market, the experience has been that those who seek to bid for the opportunity require information and data in order to be able to make their bid. What we have tried to do is ensure the State would capture the geophysical data. There are a number of other aspects to that, including subsea information data. We provide it to all the bidders in an open-source way and that removes some of the uncertainty in the calculations they make on the pricing. Therefore, rather than-----

I am sorry to cut across the Minister of State. Is that the designated maritime area plan, DMAP, process or is that separate?

It is not necessarily the DMAP process. The DMAP identifies the sites that are suitable. Other data is then captured and that data is handed in an open-source way to the industry rather than if we had four, six or ten bidders-----

Okay, I completely understand that.

-----and each one was spending moneys to do it at significant cost. It is effectively about derisking the tendering process so that they can get a more accurate price, and that benefits us. We saw that in play on the Tonn Nua site, where we got a very good bid price.

From memory, it was approximately €98.70 per MWh. I can come back to the Deputy on the specifics of that. The purpose was to provide as much basic raw data as possible on the ground conditions and the conditions at sea to reduce their potential exposure in getting it wrong, as it were. We continue to do that. There are three additional sites that will be tendered for, one in 2027 and two more after that, to finish out the south-east coast DMAP. By the end of 2027 we hope to have a national DMAP prepared right around the country. We will be continuing to capture data and provide it to the industry for those who are bidding. What we were really pleased about with the Tonn Nua site was that we had four bidders for that auction. We do it in a way that provides State support as well, through a contract for difference model. What has been particularly positive from our perspective is that we got four bidders and we got a good price, which is an indication of competitive tension. A number of other countries that have sought bids in recent times, certainly over the course of last year, had no bidders in their auction process so we feel this is a good pathway to follow, namely, derisking by the provision of open source data in the first instance and then retaining the contract for difference model in the auction process. It is an area that is working well for us.

The State is taking on some of the cost of the bidding process for the bidders. I get why because, as the Minister of State says, it derisks it and encourages more bids. Is there anything to claw back any of that with a successful tender? Does that come into play at all?

The licensing will of course provide funding, and obviously the companies that establish here will be subject to taxation. What we are trying to do in a very expeditious way is get clean green energy onto our grid, reduce our dependence on fossil fuels and power our economy into the decades ahead in a much more efficient way.

I have a last question on the €8 million for the data collection. Who does the data collection or who is getting that €8 million?

Specifically, I assume it is the Marine Institute which does a lot of our data. Some of course will be purchased. There are quite a number of other private entities that provide that data collection but our Marine Institute, from a national scientific perspective, has significant assets at sea and provides a lot of data to our marine planning section in particular for the development of the DMAPs.

I thank the Cathaoirleach.

We move to programme C, which is circular economy development. I remind Deputies that subheads C8 to C12, inclusive, are no longer within the remit of this committee and were considered, as the Minister of State mentioned, by the Select Committee on Fisheries and Maritime Affairs on 25 February. Do any members want to ask questions about programme C? Deputy Daly does. Please let us know which subhead.

Subhead C4 relates to environmental damage and managing waste. A sum of €14.35 million is provided to Geological Survey Ireland, GSI, for looking at the groundwater and drinking water supply. Is the Minister of State satisfied that this is enough, given all we have heard about the polluted waters around the State?

I am. The allocation for this subhead has slightly decreased. This relates to the lower level of engagement in EU-funded projects and the decrease in the research budget. The priority programmes for GSI include the support of the EU Critical Raw Materials Act through the development of the mandatory national exploration programme and extractive waste valorisation; the INFOMAR national seabed mapping activity; groundwater catchment mapping in midlands counties and in support of the EU drinking water directive, with the latter funded by the Department of local government and housing; and funding towards innovation in the national construction materials aggregates programme. Based on the Estimates process and the funding sought from a departmental point of view, we are confident it meets the expected needs of GSI.

I recently met Dublin Waste to Energy, which has raised issues such as the banning of single-use vapes and nitrous oxide. When those canisters come into its system through recycling, they can cause fires. Is the Government taking any steps to deal with those materials and to have them completely banned?

That is probably a matter of waste management at local authority level. It is not something that has been factored into our requests at departmental level. In the first instance, it is something that would be addressed by a local authority through the Department of housing. Like all projects that ultimately develop from some starting point, anything that would emerge this year would find its way into the Estimates process in advance of next year's budget.

The Minister of State would be in favour of banning those because of the environmental damage they cause.

Very much so. It is just a matter of what the legislation will be in relation to it, who will have responsibility for it and then ultimately which parent Department will fund it.

Okay. To go back slightly, we are still very dependent on gas-fired electricity generation. Irish electricity prices are of course coupled with international gas prices. I think the EU Commission is going to be discussing decoupling those. Will the Government be pushing for that? We all saw after the war in Ukraine started that the prices went up and they are slower to come down and-----

Which subhead are you on?

It is a general point I think.

I am going back to the general point. When I was driving up from Kerry last night, it seemed at every petrol station I passed that the prices had gone up by 1 cent in reaction to what happened at the weekend.

The retailers in Kerry are kinder than they are in other counties if they are only taking 1 cent.

They were relatively low in Kerry but the further I went they went up more. That was when the price-gouging really started.

Kerry is good but everywhere else is bad, I understand. There had been a discussion about decoupling, certainly at Commission and European level, during the worst phases of the price volatility resulting from the Russian invasion of Ukraine and for a while thereafter. As gas prices stabilised again, I certainly have not seen the same intensity in the conversation about it. I can get the Deputy an update on where the conversation about decoupling is at. There was a windfall tax included here previously, whereby energy providers were required to base their price on the wholesale price of gas but their costs had not escalated. With the renewable sector in particular, its costs had not gone up because it was generating energy from wind and the cost of that had not gone up. The Government introduced, as the Deputy knows, a windfall tax at the time and that is referenced, I think, at the back of this section where appropriations-in-aid are dealt with. There were funds that were generated as a result of that. How we effectively set the wholesale price of electricity would obviously be a matter for the European Union as a whole.

I have two more questions. I see the landfill and plastic bag levy revenues are declining. Is that because the public are being trained into using them less?

The Deputy is absolutely right. There are fewer plastic bags in circulation from a retail perspective.

The Minister of State mentioned the hypothecation and the carbon tax. He said it was a good thing that the Government has overcome the challenges. Are all the junior Ministers happy with the carbon tax?

I think I know where the Deputy is going with this one and I might pass.

This is the final question. We have the-----

I would say it is going to be a local question.

We could have the "something fishy" programme for schools because there is something fishy about people objecting to the carbon tax while supporting Government increases. Is the attitude among the TDs who sometimes support the Government taken into consideration when it comes to the something fishy programme or do they keep politics out of it?

Was there a question in there somewhere?

I am seeking full clarity on what is considered fishy by the Department.

I might take a pass on that one. I am conscious that not even everybody in the same political party always agrees when it comes to matters relating to taxation, but I am of the view that it was a positive decision at the time. It was a challenging one for everybody, but we are now seeing the benefits. In the alternative budgets prepared by all political parties and even by some groups of Independents that are loosely aligned under the platform of being a party, right across the board it is stated that they are against the carbon tax but not in terms of where they started from. The platform they start from nearly always includes the carbon tax that was levied in the previous year. I understand how politics works and the fact that the Opposition has to do its job. Putting forward new taxes is never easy. Carbon tax has worked really well, however, because we can see the benefits, which I have already outlined.

I will let the Minister of State off the hook regarding the something fishy programme.

The difficulty is that we have very few fishies at the minute, unfortunately, which is a challenge, due to a reduction in stocks.

The final speaker is Deputy Heneghan. Perhaps he will clarify whether he is in this umbrella group of Independent moving targets that the Minister of State mentioned.

The Minister of State is a lucky man that I cannot do subheads A and B after that conversation.

We still got the €5 million for Howth.

We did. I will stick to subhead C. As an Independent with a master's degree in sustainable energy systems, I would like to focus on-----

I am in very deep trouble now.

I apologise for not being here earlier; I was in the Dáil for Taoiseach's questions.

My first question relates to the €46.8 million to protect the environment through waste management initiatives and enforcement. Deputy Daly mentioned the Dublin waste-to-energy plant, which I also visited. The plant is experiencing huge issues regarding nitrous oxide gas canisters. Is there any update on how that problem will be tackled, particularly as the canisters are damaging the plant? Even when empty, canisters are exploding and damaging the facility.

I do not have an update on that, but I will certainly get one for the Deputy from the company concerned. We will revert to him on that.

There is a policy-related element to this from the Department's perspective. In that context, it would be useful to get a follow-up from the Department as to where it sits. This is an issue that has been raised here on three occasions.

I appreciate that. We will get a response for the committee.

Is any of that money being spent on degraded landfill sites, specifically the site in Darndale in north Dublin that was just decommissioned? Is there any update in respect of that site?

I do not have a breakdown in respect of the individual sites but I am happy to revert to the Deputy on the matter. What the Department generally does is provide funding to local authorities on the basis of their requests. We do so on a project-by-project basis. I have no doubt that in order for us to hand over the money, it has to be on that basis. We can get that information for the Deputy in due course.

That is brilliant, because it is very much a priority. My constituency colleagues and I would have heard it mentioned a good deal. It is something that needs to be done for north Dublin.

On the sum of €14.3 million, a breakdown is outlined. I am interested in tackling coastal vulnerability and have spoken to the Minister of State previously about this in the Chamber.

Which subhead is the Deputy referring to?

It is under programme C. A sum of €14.3 million is provided for Geological Survey Ireland services in respect of geoscience projects. The Minister of State referred earlier to the supply of critical raw materials and tackling coastal vulnerability. Would tackling coastal vulnerability include flood relief measures? If not, what does this money relate to?

Flood relief would not be contemplated in the context of this funding. Again, I can come back to the Deputy with more details. I do not believe there is any flood relief funding as part of this. Geological Survey Ireland conducts research, measurement, groundwater mapping and general work in that area, but not in the context of identifying resolutions.

I appreciate that. I also appreciate the allocation of money for Howth in north Dublin. It was great to see that flowing in. Can I discuss subheads C9, C10 and C12?

They have already been discussed. If the Deputy has a specific question, however, I can try to answer it. I may not have all of the information available now but if there is something that I know from memory, I will certainly try to answer.

I do not want to break the rules. Is it okay for me to speak to programmes A and B?

No, we are finished with them.

Does the Minister of State have any update on the district heating system at the waste-to-energy plant and how it is going to be utilised optimally? How is it intended to capture the waste heat from the plant? Having visited the facility, I know that the district heating pipes are installed and ready. I understand that the waste heat is going to be used to heat the homes at the former glass bottle site. Does the Department have any updates on whether there are more district heating systems being planned in Dublin that would be similar to the Codema one in Tallaght or the waste-to-energy site in Ringsend? Will that be expanded or has a study been done on the potential of waste heat and how much energy it is going to provide? Will we be able to use that energy for some of the local housing sites if they have combined heat and power systems or central heating systems of some kind?

This year, the SEAI district heating centre of excellence will continue to work with project sponsors, both public and private, to progress development in the district heating projects around the country. Following on from the projects conducted in 2024 and 2025, there are a number of additional feasibility studies planned for Cork, Kilkenny, Tipperary, Carlow, Sligo town and Limerick this year. After a successful call for expressions of interest towards the end of last year, the Department and the SEAI will complete the operationalisation of the €5 million pre-construction and are currently inviting applicants to the next stage of the process in anticipation of funding coming on stream. Following confirmation of up to €100 million of NDP-ICNF funding for district heating, work is under way on the development of a capital expenditure grant funding scheme to support large-scale district heating projects. The Department and the SEAI centre of excellence are finalising the business case, with the funding expected to be available in early 2027.

As recommended by the district heating steering group report, the SEAI centre of excellence is currently finishing work on a national level assessment which is expected to be delivered this year. This will provide a report on the potential areas for district heating to support policy and regulations, providing standardised data for developers and facilitating stakeholder engagement. The Department and the SEAI will continue to work with the European Investment Bank, EIB, and a number of other stakeholders relevant to the Irish district heating market on a study to inform delivery of the long-term strategy for the establishment of a viable district heating roll out in Ireland, including potential supports available from the EIB. This is something that the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, is very much on top of and supports. Right across the Department, we recognise that there are large energy users that generate a considerable amount of heat which, up to now, was lost and had a big impact on the environment. We see opportunities through the latest large energy users report from the CRU in terms of where we intend to locate in energy parks closer to the source of electricity generation to reduce the necessity for all of that grid infrastructure. The idea of doing it in concert with large energy users is to try to have other enterprises on site that can use the heat as well as the electricity in close proximity to where it is generated.

We recognise the importance of data centres to our economy and we recognise the demand they place on electricity. We are looking to develop energy parks close to where, for talk's sake, offshore energy is brought ashore and trying to co-locate enterprises that have a symbiotic relationship with each other. It is very much part of the overall Government policy.

On district heating, in areas where you already have large energy users and we can pipe that heat into the domestic environment, that, too, is very much a feature. There is a district heating body out there. It is in regular contact with us and we want to work with it.

I appreciate that.

The Deputy raised two specific cases. The first was the south Dublin one. The Tallaght district heating scheme received a total of €4.92 million funding from the Climate Action Fund, CAF. It was completed in September 2025. That scheme uses waste heat from a data centre in Tallaght to provide low-carbon heat to consumers of the scheme. The success of the Tallaght district heating scheme serves as a scalable model for sustainable urban heating in Ireland as well as proving that developing and operating district heat networks is feasible in an Irish context.

The Deputy raised another specific case, that of the Dublin district heating scheme. The Dublin City Council district heating scheme was initially proposed and deemed eligible for support as a project to receive funding of €20 million over the Climate Action Fund as part of the fund's first open call for applications in November 2018. As the project had not moved to delivery within the allowable timeframe and as the funding requirement had increased, with it now seeking approximately €50 million from the CAF, the scheme was deemed to no longer be within the parameters for the first open call due to time elapsed and the state aid rules. Therefore, the project is now eligible for support within the scope of the second funding round of the CAF. The preliminary business case in respect of this project was received and approved by the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment in 2025. In principle, it is proposed that a programmatic approach, as set out under the infrastructure guidelines, be applied to the Dublin district heating project. This project recognises that the delivery of the scheme involves a sequenced, iterative capital investment life cycle and multiple vendors at different stages, so the renewable heat delivery section and Dublin City Council are currently finalising that programmatic approach. The council is preparing a first detailed business case for the Dublin district heating scheme. The detailed business case, DBC, will specify a programmatic approach for delivery of the project. Once satisfactorily finalised, the council will submit a first and final business case to the development and to the Minister for Climate, Energy and the Environment for approval of initial funding from the CAF for the project. I hope that brings the Deputy some clarity.

I appreciate the Minister of State coming back to those two issues that I raised. Having been a councillor on Dublin City Council when it was discussed, I am aware there was great support in the chamber.

In relation to what the Minister of State said about the future of Ireland, it is great to hear that from the Department in relation to the future of energy parks. Especially in the age we live in right now, we need to be looking at where we are going to get our foreign direct investment, FDI. We are in a great location for that.

As the Minister of State spoke about the district heating and the symbiotic relationship between energy parks and places in close proximity, is there any update from the Department on plug-in solar for apartments? It has been raised previously and the ESB was to get back to us. It is in relation to the circular economy and how we can reduce the energy costs for apartment dwellings. Apologies, it is not really in relation to the subhead, but if the Minister of State can give me an update, I would appreciate that.

The Deputy should look for the plug-in solar subhead.

I appreciate the lenience from the Chair.

It did come up on my radar. I am aware it is a pet project of the Deputy's. The Department, as I understand it, has engaged with stakeholders on the optional provisions of the new electricity market design directive, including the provision relating to plug-in mini-solar systems, through an online consultation that ran from September to October 2024. Broadly speaking, responses to the optional provision to promote plug-in mini-solar systems were negative. The Deputy may be familiar with that. Concerns arose where such mini-systems could be purchased and installed but did not meet the required manufacturing installation or operational standards. This was also noted in a recent European Commission guidance note on innovative technologies and forms of renewable energy development. It was noted that the substandard systems might result in an elevated risk to health and safety and the operation of the distribution network. Current micro-generation supports are predicated on minimum safety and quality standards being adhered to via a code of practice for such installations, including very clear electrical wiring standards. Plug-in mini-solar systems, by their nature, are portable, so it is difficult to predict how and in what circumstances they would be used. Some form of regulation may be needed if plug-in mini-solar were to be promoted. In light of the potential safety and other issues arising, further consideration of this matter with relevant agencies and regulators, including ESB Networks in its role as a system operator, is required.

I appreciate that. In relation to the 2024 survey, and apologies for my inexperience, is it publicly available who gave the bad reviews?

Maybe the officials could share a report on that because it is an interesting point.

With 340,000 people in arrears with their energy bills, this is a quick solution for the Government. I spoke to the Taoiseach and he said he would get back to me on it. It is especially pertinent for people who are already in the midst of apartment builds.

When the Minister of State says it is not safe, would the German Government be allowing plug-in solar if it was not safe?

I ask that we get a report to the committee specifically on that. I thank the Deputy.

I thank the Minister of State and his officials for assisting the committee with its consideration of the Revised Estimates. As we have now completed our consideration of those Estimates for Vote 29 - Climate, Energy and the Environment, programmes A, B and C, the clerk to the committee will send a message to that effect to the Clerk of the Dáil.