The purpose of today's meeting is to consider the Estimates falling within the remit of the Department of Finance. A proposed timetable for today's meeting was circulated to members. It allows for opening statements by the Minister of State and the Opposition spokespersons, followed by a question and answer session. Is that agreed? Agreed. I ask for members' co-operation in adhering to the timetable as we must conclude not later than 2.25 p.m. to allow another committee to commence at 2.30 p.m.

On behalf of the select committee, I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Cullen, and his officials. The Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, is at a Government meeting but will attend later. We commence with Vote 10 - Office of Public Works.

I am very pleased to introduce the Estimate for the Office of Public Works for the year 2002. As I have stated on a number of occasions previously, my principal objective when taking office as Minister of State with responsibility for public works was that the Office of Public Works should adopt a commercially-minded approach to its operations and in particular to enhance its customer service, provide a clearer focus on value for money and identify possible new areas of business activity.

As I come to the end of my current term of office, I am pleased to report that the Office of Public Works has made excellent progress in these areas. Deputies will be aware that our project management service was the first Civil Service body to achieve ISO 9002 accreditation in 2000. Since then, the architectural, structural engineering, hydrology and hydrometric services of the office have each achieved ISO accreditation and the Office of Public Works is actively pursuing accreditation for our other business units. The office has also won a number of architectural awards in recent years and one only has to look at Leinster House 2000, the new Millennium wing of the National Gallery and Farmleigh House, to name but a few, to see that the office is capable of producing work of the very highest standard. This highlights once again the quality and service-led ethos I sought to develop and which I believe is now being achieved. I am particularly proud of the advancements which have been made within the office over the past five years and I take this opportunity to commend the staff of the Office of Public Works and, particularly, its chairman.

The total amount being sought for the Vote is €380,631,000. The major portion of this expenditure is comprised of the accommodation programme for which I am seeking funding of €287,573 million. A sum of €188,593,000 is being allocated for subhead E, which relates to new works, alterations and additions, the largest element of the accommodation programme. The major areas of expenditure this year are €30 million on the provision of new facilities at Backweston for the State Laboratory and the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, €18.5 million for the office rationalisation and refurbishment programme, €17.3 million on the cultural institutions programme, €16.7 million on the Garda building programme, €15.3 million on the ongoing refurbishment of Oireachtas accommodation, €14.3 million on the social, community and family affairs programme, €12.1 million on the refurbishment of offices in the Glen in Waterford for the Revenue Commissioners, €9 million on the north side civic centre in Coolock for the Department of Social, Community and Family Affairs and €4.9 million for asylum seeker accommodation.

The new laboratories at Backweston will provide 12,500 square metres of accommodation and will incorporate a conference and library facility for use by the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development and the State Laboratory. The Office of Public Works is examining a number of tenders for the construction of the laboratory and it is hoped to enter into contracts by the end of March, with contractors coming on site in April. Deputies will be pleased to hear that as part of phase 1 of a major refurbishment of Kildare House, construction of a gym and acrèche will be fast-tracked and is expected to be completed during the summer recess. Members will be aware that the development was not held up by the Office of Public Works, but by the use of the space by Oireachtas committees and facilities. The contract has been placed.

We hope to be back in the House to use it.

The current policy of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform on asylum seeker accommodation is to provide system-built accommodation on greenfield sites. Such accommodation will be developed at two sites in 2002. A site at Dublin Road, Kilkenny, will be developed to accommodate up to 250 asylum seekers. Work there should commence in April and should be completed in autumn or winter. The hotel at Cork Airport is being developed to accommodate up to 450 asylum seekers and is due for completion thissummer.

The Office of Public Works has undertaken a very successful Garda building programme in recent years - almost €25 million has been spent in the past two years to provide new Garda accommodation, to carry out major extensions and to refurbish existing Garda stations. The design and construction of these works is of the highest quality and will offer excellent working conditions and facilities to Garda personnel. Many of the new stations will benefit from the provision of CCTV which contributes greatly to personal security. Major schemes completed include new residential and education blocks at Templemore and €5 million on new forensic and storage facilities at the Talbot premises in Santry. It is estimated that €16.7 million will be spent on Garda stations in 2002. Work on Garda stations in Blanchardstown, Clifden, Cobh, Kilrush, Kilmacthomas, Tourmakeady, Thomastown, Ballinrobe, Ballymore and Roundstone will be carried out this year.

About €81 million is sought for rent and rates. The Office of Public Works manages about 11 million square feet of office accommodation, of which about 23% is leased. Significant increases in property rents in recent years in response to market conditions are reflected in the fact that the Office of Public Works's rent reviews on Dublin properties are currently increasing by between 20% and 25% per annum. Nevertheless, in 2001 the average Office of Public Works rental in Dublin was still under €30 per square foot, which compares favourably with the average rent for prime third generation space of about €50 per square foot. Provincial rents are increasing proportionately in line with Dublin rents. Good quality space is renting at €18 to €20 per square foot in the rest of the country.

A provision of €17.907 million is sought for the purchase of sites and buildings under the Office of Public Works's accommodation programme, particularly for the Garda building and office purchase programmes. The decrease in provision compared to 2001 can be accounted for by the fact that the Office of Public Works bought the former offices of The Irish Press at Burgh Quay in Dublin last year as a one-stop-shop for immigration and citizenship, at a cost of €35.5 million. Property acquisitions by my office are part of its policy to purchase strategic properties and to acquire the freehold of properties held under long and onerous leases. Specific target properties are being identified on an ongoing basis. The purchase of such properties makes good economic sense given the high rental levels demanded in Dublin in particular. Proposed acquisitions in 2002 include sites for the Garda programme at Kevin Street and Bride Street in Dublin, Abbeyfeale, New Inn, Bantry, Cobh and Kilfinane

The other major programme in this Vote is that for drainage and engineering works for which €29.492 million is sought. This programme comprises arterial drainage maintenance, for which a sum of €13.8 million is being sought, and various flood relief schemes. The Office of Public Works is implementing the recommendations of the PricewaterhouseCoopers report to continue with arterial drainage maintenance and to prepare a programme of work to deal with the Office of Public Works' responsibility for bridges, embankments and drainage districts.

Following flooding problems in recent years, I reactivated an interdepartmental committee originally set up in 1995 to monitor the effects of bad weather. Arising from the committee's recommendations, I instructed the Office of Public Works to undertake a number of initiatives to contribute to addressing the flooding problem nationwide. The principal initiative is a major flood event mapping project to identify the location and extent of areas prone to flooding and this will continue in 2002. Deputies will be aware that the Office of Public Works is carrying out a programme of flood relief schemes in various parts of the country which are subject to periodic temporary flooding. The Office of Public Works sometimes co-operates with and provides support for local authorities in the preparation of flood alleviation proposals within their jurisdictional areas.

The flood relief programme will require €14.4 million in 2002. Local flood relief schemes completed in 2001 include Maam Valley in County Galway, Shinkeen stream at Hazelhatch in County Kildare and the River Bandon at Dunmanway in County Cork. Site works which commenced at Carrick-on-Suir are due to be completed by mid-2002, work which commenced at Kilkenny in September 2001 is due for completion in 2004, the schemes at Clonmel and Cregclare in south Galway have reached public exhibition stage and the scheme relating to John's river in Waterford city will go on display in 2002. A flood relief feasibility report into the study of flooding in Ennis was co-funded by the Office of Public Works and Clare County Council, and my office is examining the report.

Deputies will recall that the Government acted quickly to deal with problems suffered by people whose houses and business premises were affected by the flooding of 1 and 2 February and put in place a scheme of humanitarian assistance administered by the Irish Red Cross Society. I am glad the Government was in a position to respond quickly to assist unfortunate victims of flooding and the humanitarian assistance provided should help restore their lives to normality. When the Irish Red Cross Society submits its report, I intend to place a copy in the Oireachtas Library.

The Office of Public Works's administration costs are expected to amount to €30.237 million in 2002, representing 8% of the Vote or about 6% of the expenditure handled by the office. I thank members for their attention. I will be pleased to hear their views and will do my best to answer questions they may ask.

Rather than make a statement, I would like to ask questions on a number of elements of the Vote.

I will ask a question first.

It is unheard of that a Chairman should jump ahead of members of the committee whom he is supposed to protect.

I am learning. It took me a long time to learn from Deputy Jim Mitchell, but I have finally done so.

I agree with the Chairman as he is our leader.

I wish to ask about the Garda station in Cobh.

Is it in the Chairm an's constituency?

It is.

Deputy Stanton has asked a question about that.

I commend whoever was responsible for the design of the new Garda station on the quays in Cobh. The fact that it is shaped like a ship complements its surroundings and highlights local history. I understand that this terrific job is almost finished and will be handed over to the Garda in the near future. Will the Office of Public Works be able to hand the station over before the end of April so we can announce its completion? Why is Cobh mentioned among the proposed acquisitions for the Garda programme in 2002?

The station is virtually complete and that is the reason for the hangover in some of the payments that will be made in the current year. The architect involved is Deirdre Houlihan of the Office of Public Works and the Deputy's remarks are very much appreciated. The station is almost ready to be opened.

I have been watching it closely. A proposed acquisition quote was mentioned also.

I do not have the exact information with me, but I think that is to provide car parking space.

I will not bother to ask about Mallow and Fermoy flood relief.

You can, Chairman. That programme, along with many others, is being studied at the moment and we are proceeding in consultation. The relevant officials and people from my office have formed a group which is working away. This highlights the fact that there is a long lead-in time on these matters, but members can take comfort from the bigger projects. We are on site in Kilkenny, we have finished the public exhibition in Clonmel and the Cregclare public display is being exhibited. Members have a lot of confidence in——

Are studies being done of models in Fermoy and Mallow?

The consultants will be appointed, when we get to the point, to build the actual models. That is an essential part of ensuring that the effect of intervention is not negative elsewhere. All schemes are designed to ensure that and, unfortunately, it takes a lot of time to gather, assemble and model that information.

Deputy McGrath, you can now go back to Westmeath.

Now that we have finished with Cork we can move on to the broader issues.

Generally speaking, the Office of Public Works does a good job and that is recognised in many quarters. There is a general feeling that sometimes jobs drag on for an awfully long time and that it takes a long time to make decisions, particularly new ones. That is my one criticism of the Office of Public Works.

A few questions arise from what the Minister of State says and the first that jumps out concerns his references to rental properties in Dublin. He says that €30 per square foot is being paid for office accommodation and he goes on to say that the average price in rural areas is €18 to €20 per square foot. Perhaps the Minister of State will take note that in Mullingar a property developer developing state-of-the-art offices served by fibre optic cable and mains gas is offering space for £9 per square foot, which is about €11. There is another developer who has the same facilities and someone moving into part of his building shortly will pay £7 per square foot, or about €9. Surely, when the costs of decentralisation are being looked at, those developments should be taken into account. Another property developer in Mullingar, who may be known to the Minister of State, is offering office accommodation at €20 per square foot.

The Office of Public Works has a responsibility to look at where it can get the best value for taxpayers' money. We are all taxpayers and we have to get the best value for our money. The Minister of State should be moving to more accommodation outside Dublin since he knows that in prime provincial locations top-class accommodation can be found which is a lot cheaper than in the city, which has the facilities that are needed and which saves the taxpayer lots of money.

The Garda station in my parish, which is on the list, is an example of one that is run down. It is on a one acre prime site and a local developer has made offers to the Department saying he will build a Garda station to meet its requirements in return for the land, offering extra money if it is needed. That would allow for the provision of state-of-the-art accommodation for the Garda, the clean up of an old site, value for money and an injection of life into a rural area. Old Garda stations were often well located and a small townhouse development or local authority housing development would add much to many villages. It would take away the cost factor that is being built into the proposals before us. The Minister of State could produce a template of what was required in a rural Garda station and offer the development for tender, while having his architects oversee what is done so that there is a sensitive treatment of the environment. The station I am thinking of, which I know well as my father served in it, is an old, stone building and it could be beautifully preserved. We need to be imaginative in looking at what we can do. The proposal is something of a public private partnership, but is a new way of doing things which would save the taxpayers money.

Regarding the use of taxpayers' money, I see the consultancy figures have gone up by 19%. I get a bee in my bonnet about this every year when I see the levels of consultancy, particularly in the Department of Finance which last year spent millions in this regard. Consultants come in for all sorts of things, but surely there is a lot of expertise in the Office of Public Works. Why is so much additional consultancy needed? What do the consultants do and what is the main thrust of what they are asked to do?

I note and welcome the expenditure on the Irish College in Rome and the Irish College in Paris. I see that the restoration of a church in Waterford has crept in at the end of the list. How was that chosen from among all the churches around the country? Were there applications from various churches to be included for restoration, or is this a special one? How did the Minister of State pick this one and what was the process behind that decision? It would be very interesting for those of us who do not live in Waterford to know how that church came to the top of the pile.

I very often see plant and machinery for drainage works lying idle in certain locations for quite a long time, getting rusty and looking terrible. Are inventories made?

They are not ours.

Are the ones along side the Royal Canal not the Office of Public Works's?

They are not ours.

Who owns them? Are they owned by Waterways Ireland?

We got Waterways Ireland to do the work.

That is the crowd that objects to planning permission as well.

There you are. It is not us I am happy to say. You will never find Office of Public Works machinery lying idle. We are too busy.

It must be the other crowd so. Generally, when you have plant and machinery you need to have it superbly managed to get the best value for money out of major capital. These machines cost a lot and unless you are getting the best value out of them you should be hiring in. It is an awful waste to have them lying around.

The Minister of State said that by the summer a gym will be in place and our chairman is looking forward to using it again. No doubt he will.

No doubt he will and there is no doubt about the Deputy's prospects.

We will keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best.

He has my support anyway. He will reciprocate.

Can I tell Senator Cassidy that?

When I was not too long in the House the Evening Herald or the Evening Press telephoned me to say there was talk about putting in a gym here. The headline was “Paul McGrath to get a gym in the Dáil”. The paper was obviously using the fact that I share a name with a very famous sportsman. That was about ten years ago and nothing has happened since. I am involved with the Committee on Members’ Interests and we have not seen any plans for the gym nor has the matter been brought to our attention. Has there been consultation with groups in the House?

There has been endless consultation.

Perhaps it was among the Whips.

The Whips, Members' services and the Committee on Procedure and Privileges consulted on the matter.

That committee, a sub-committee of which I am a member, will meet later this evening. The matter has not been drawn to our attention. We need to make sure this is done properly in order that the facility will be used. There are many reasons for housing it in the main complex rather than an outbuilding. I hope this is done. The Minister of State also mentioned a crèche. Has this been discussed with Members?

We had a commission to address this matter and it was us, rather than the Office of Public Works, who caused the lengthy delay. Planning permission was received and all other requirements were met long ago, but there have been difficulties with Members and Oireachtas staff.

I thank Deputy McGrath for his questions which are to the point. He has taken a great interest in my Department in recent years. I could not agree more with his opening remarks on value for money. Certainly, the Department and the Office of Public Works have travelled an immeasurable distance down the road of seeking value for money.

The Deputy also made a valid point about decentralisation. As he is well aware, the decision on this matter does not rest with me, but with the Government. Nevertheless, because of the enormous number of requests for property we were receiving from Departments and State agencies, the Department decided about two and a half years ago that, unless absolutely essential, these properties would not be located in the centre of Dublin. Instead, we encouraged the various bodies and Departments to move accommodation elsewhere. This policy, which is outside the much larger decentralisation programme that we very much support, has had some success.

Despite the whole range of positive aspects of decentralisation - it is good for business, cost effective to the State and offers good value for money - we acted purely on the basis of property considerations. We want to implement decentralisation and have been doing our level best to encourage State bodies and Departments not to take accommodation in Dublin 4, in the area around Leinster House or in other central Dublin locations where everybody wants to be.

The rental figures provided are average figures. Outside Dublin the average is €18 to €20, but it can be as low as the £9 figure quoted by the Deputy, which is about €13.

I quoted a figure of €9.

The figure quoted was in pounds.

There is another figure of €9.

They are facts which I do not dispute. It is possible to find accommodation at that price in other areas which would have huge benefits, some of which Deputy McGrath and the Chairman have enunciated. They include the value which decentralisation would bring to local communities and local economies and the benefits in terms of the lifestyle of the civil servants who would work in these areas as regards such matters as access to schools and safety, both of which have a huge resonance. My Department hopes to be involved in implementing this in the near future and has been involved in promoting decentralisation outside the main programme.

We bought a substantial number of properties in recent years and reduced the balance between rented and owned accommodation. In the past five years, we strategically purchased properties or bought out substantial leases we held. We brought the National Treasury Management Agency into the process to give advice on the costs of continuing to rent certain properties, some of which were design, build and finance, vis-à-vis buying them outright. We have done exceptionally well in terms of the properties we have bought back for the State.

The Deputy will also understand that we need to balance property which we own with rental accommodation. We need flexibility in the portfolio. We have achieved the right balance with slightly more than 70% of the total portfolio owned and 30% rented. As with any good business, we must also keep an eye on market developments to ensure that if good opportunities for property acquisition arise we can form a view as to whether they would be of strategic benefit to the State.

The Deputy's second point with regard to Garda stations on prime sites is also very valid. Disposal of these properties is not our call which perhaps explains some of the delay. The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform must decide whether to keep or dispose of a property and produce the property list for carrying out work. My Department might have a view on these matters, but the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform is the line Department on whose behalf we act and generally we agree with its decisions.

We cannot do everything overnight. There are opportunities, one of which in my county fits into the bracket to which the Deputy referred. It involves an old Garda station where there was a possibility of selling it to a developer and building a much better station on another site. Given that there are many public procurement procedures which make it necessary to have a transparent process, I wish to ensure that I do not have to appear here at a later date to answer questions about bypassing transparency.

This brings us back to the procurement process which in many cases, notably where larger properties are concerned, requires publication in the EU journal. Therefore, while it takes time, we have been trying to act in accordance with the principle expressed by the Deputy and it is no accident - I assert this with absolute confidence - that my Department has achieved a higher level of ISO accreditation than any other Civil Service Department in the world. Receiving accreditation for, I believe, four of our six business units is a remarkable achievement and one of the major achievements of the past five years. However, I do not take all the credit for it as the Chairman, one of our commissioners and I collectively took this view five years ago when people in the Department may well have thought we were mad and would not achieve this aim. I took the view, however, that if we claim to be as good as the private sector, we must demonstrate and prove it in a way the public understands, and we have achieved this.

The Deputy asked a question about consultancy. The consultancy work refers to the new financial management systems which we brought in experts to implement, rather than report on, as part of the strategic management initiative. I disagree with the Deputy, we are very parsimonious in some respects where consultancy is concerned because the expertise exists in the Department. Nevertheless, the Department has a huge interaction with the private sector in all its disciplines, a combination which brings out the best in us. Flooding is a good example of an area in which we bring in outside expertise to work with us.

The Deputy's question on Christ Church Cathedral was slightly tongue in cheek. I have believed for years that there are numerous important buildings belonging to many of the Churches which they no longer have the capacity to maintain and preserve. These buildings are an important part of our built heritage. However, it is important to make clear that we are not in the business of restoring buildings for the Churches. When the approach was made concerning the property in question, agreement was reached on the basis that it would become a major public facility. This is what the money is being spent on by both the State and the public. The church, which will continue to serve its very small remaining congregation, houses the most important organ in the country which is being restored and refitted by experts brought in for the purpose. It will become a major national location for recitals. Not everything must take place in Dublin.

I have also spoken to my staff in Dublin Castle who form part of an international group which organises concerts featuring foreign performers and the RTE orchestra. The dean was a much more forward-looking man than many of his colleagues. It took four years to put together and was not something that happened overnight.

We should rename it the Martin Luther Cullen concert hall.

I have not requested that my name be put up over the door but as it is a Church of Ireland church, I do not think they would be too happy with a Lutheran name on the door. Future Governments will have to face up to this policy issue. I am glad my Department led the way in regard to this facility. We have also done much on the international front as the references to Rome and Paris indicate. We must remember that there are important aspects of Irish heritage that are not located here.

With regard to plant and machinery, we hire in a lot of machinery and try to keep what we own to a minimum. The machinery we own is used to its greatest capacity on a 24 hour basis. It is disappointing that much of the fantastic work undertaken by this Department during the foot and mouth disease crisis is often forgotten. Office of Public Works staff delivered where it counted. It was Office of Public Works staff who moved in machinery and manpower with the know-how to deal with the issue and they deserve more credit than they got.

We have had planning permission for some time in Kildare House for the gym and crèche. The location was chosen due to its better access. It is not possible to have children in here. At the rear end of the building where Statoil was located there is access on the other side of the square for the proposed crèche which will also have an outdoor area. It has all been agreed and the size of the gym has been enlarged several times. Deputy Mitchell was one of the people who looked at this. We got planning permission about a year or 18 months ago but we could not get into the building. Oireachtas Members and various committees of the Houses had their views about facilities and usage. We are the ones who have been left to pursue it and we have now reached agreement between all parties.

The building we are sitting in today is one of the major achievements during my tenure in the Office of Public Works. This project was presented before each Minister of State in my position for the past 20 years and it was the first project the chairman put to me, almost tongue in cheek, not believing it would happen, but we delivered and won an international award for this building.

I do not want to cast any clouds over the Minister of State's view of his Department but the Office of Public Works is not known for keeping to timetables. I will not even raise the question of budgets.

Would the Deputy like to highlight one?

What was the original deadline for completion of the building in Cobh and is it on time? It is a hallmark of the Government that deadlines are being missed everywhere, not just by the Office of Public Works. Promises are being made but no deadlines are being met. With regard to projects over the past three years, what were the original deadlines and what were the actual completion dates? If there is a disparity between the two, will the Minister of State account for it.

I do not mind that we are working on the church in Waterford, but it is stated in the Constitution that we should not endow any religion, and that is construed to mean that we cannot help churches in this situation. Dublin City Council has been maintaining the park attached to St. Patrick's Cathedral and the one at Christchurch Cathedral. This started many years ago when I was Lord Mayor of Dublin, although it strains the Constitution to do so. We ought to look at this question because in other countries churches are supported. I do not have a problem with it as long as we do so reasonably and fairly across the board and use them for purposes that are not contradicting their sacred nature.

I am very happy to answer the Deputy. I am delighted to have the opportunity to come before the committee to say that in my area of responsibility every project has been brought in, not alone on time, but on budget as well. That is one of the hallmarks of getting ISO accreditation. Indeed, it is central to it and we would not have got it if we could not demonstrate an ability to finish a job according to deadline. Every project in the past five years was brought in on budget and on time.

Does that include the job in Cobh?

I do not have the details in front of me but I will give them to the Deputy.

Is the project in Cobh on time or is it like the gym, in that it has been talked about for years?

The gym was stopped by the Members of the Oireachtas, not by the Office of Public Works.

It was stopped because what was proposed was ludicrous.

No.

I know it inside out. A halfpenny stamp in this building then a penny halfpenny stamp in the other building is far too small. I was to be told what the new version is but was not told. From the beginning the proposals on the gym were ludicrous and the last one I saw was still unrealistic. I do not want to be drawn into criticism of the project, which is good in theory, but I suspect that it will not start in the summer. If I have anything to do with it, it will be sent out to the public sector. Time has overtaken the idea as it stands and we need a different approach to it. Let us move on to the Cobh issue now. Is it on time?

I do not have the information to hand. I did not come in here with a specific brief on Cobh, as the Deputy is well aware, but to my knowledge, it is on time. I will get the current details for the Deputy.

I am surprised by the comments the Deputy made regarding the gym going to the private sector. I do not understand the basis for this argument. I agree with the Deputy's point that the facilities for Members are inadequate. I have just come back from a Parliament building that has swimming pools, gym rooms, living accomodation and rest rooms for members, and I agree with that. The problem here is that there is a political divide between Oireachtas Members on it.

There is no political divide.

It should be supported by all Oireachtas Members and we should go down that road.

I do not want to make the gym the central focus, but it is a case in point that has been delayed for years. It should be commercial because if it is to be viable it will have to be open to more than Members of the Oireachtas.

I agree with the Deputy but that is not an Office of Public Works decision. That is a House decision and the Committee on Procedure and Privileges has to be involved. The difficulty is that there is no agreement on the issue. There is not even agreement on who should use the crèche. I cannot solve those problems. I can build it and install state-of-the-art facilities, but who uses them is a matter for others.

Then it becomes a chicken and egg situation. If it has not been decided who is going to use it, how can it be designed with regard to capacity and so on?

It is not for me to say.

Enough said. I would like to get a report on how the Minister of State has met timetables during his five years in office.

If the committee invites me back, I will prepare a detailed report.

We cannot invite the Minister of State back because an election is due shortly. The Minister of State should send the details to us in writing to justify his claim that deadlines have been met.

I am happy to do that.

That concludes the discussion on Vote 10. I thank the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Cullen, and his officials at the Office of Public Works, Mr. Murphy, Mr. Benton and others, for attending today. I thank the committee members for the manner in which they conducted the Estimate discussions.

I understand that the Minister of State, Deputy Cullen, will continue until the Minister, Deputy McCreevy, arrives. The Minister will read an opening statement when there is a change of personnel. I wish the chairman, commissioner and other members of the Office of Public Works well and look forward to meeting them in the next Parliament.

Will the chairman still be in place?

I hope not. I would prefer to be sitting down there.