Section 57 has this proviso: that a certificate shall accompany each lot of marked bacon. All I have to say in reference to this section is that it seems to me to be one which it would be extremely difficult to carry into every-day effect. Unless the Minister is of opinion that it is absolutely indispensable it ought to be dropped.

It is in operation under the Fresh Meat Act, and I am told it does not give rise to any great inconvenience either to the officials concerned or to the traders.

Sub-section (3) provides that the veterinary examiner shall, at the request of the licensee, issue a consignment certificate certifying the number of pieces of bacon in such lot. Does not that mean that the veterinary examiner must issue a certificate in respect of every bale of bacon leaving the factory ?

Oh, no. He might issue a certificate in respect of 40 bales. There are sections dealing with the carrying companies requiring them not to take bacon unless accompanied by a certificate and so on. It is the carrying companies who pressed for this section so that they may know where they are, because otherwise it would be difficult for them to make inquiries, but when you have this section it makes it easier for the carrying companies.

It is a section that it is never intended to put into practice—it is never intended that the veterinary examiner should count the number of pieces in the bales or bags.

It is where there is a suspicion on the part of the veterinary examiner that the curer is trying to evade the regulations that this would be necessary. But where the veterinary examiner knows that the curer is carrying out the provisions of the Act he may be inclined to take the word of the curer for it.

The purpose of this Bill is to prevent any bacon leaving the factory without being marked by the veterinary examiner. It must be properly marked.

Yes, that is the purpose.

Does the Minister think that this strengthens the Bill ? If he does not think it does, does he not think that this business of filling up forms is a burden on the ordinary manufacturer ?

No; it makes it easier for the manufacturer, because if the factory has to satisfy the railway company, the shipping company or the road carrying company that the bale is in order and that they have not to open it to see whether it is properly marked it saves a good deal of trouble. It would lead to a good deal of trouble otherwise for the carrying company. But if there is a consignment certificate it is made much easier for them.

Had the Minister an opportunity of discussing that section with any of the people in business ?

Yes. I went through this Bill with the people in the trade and they did not object to it.

Very well. If the Minister thinks it will not be too onerous in operation I withdraw my objection.

I do not think it will be too onerous.

Will that certificate apply to any portion of the carcase which might be exported besides the finished bacon ?

Bacon only.

At the present time it is the custom to export heads and hams. There is a trade they can get for these. Can we meet that point ?

That is a very difficult problem and I am not sure that this Bill is going to make it any easier. Indeed I do not think it is. It is a separate problem. The problem for those bacon curers in the northern counties is that they have a market for the bacon but it is difficult to dispose of their hams. They dispose of the hams as pork, fresh meat and sometimes as bacon according to the condition of the market for the time being.

I do not think they have any trouble disposing of their hams. They have a market for any hams they have to export.

But the difficulty is the Fresh Meat Act. This Bill will not make their problem any easier.

I wish to tell the Committee, though I may not be in order in doing so, that I took an opportunity yesterday of consulting the Pig Marketing Board in Northern Ireland. I questioned the official there very particularly about the restrictions that the British people put on exports. His reply was that so long as the British were given a certificate they raised no objection. That is an ante and postmortem certificate of examination. There was no difficulty about the export of the carcase in part. That made no difficulty to the factory.

Could Deputy Haslett say if the British authorities would have as high opinion of us down here as they have of the fellows up North ?

They will.

Yes, I am sure of that.

But not unless our Bill is strictly drawn and we make it binding on ourselves.

That is the principle of the whole Bill.

Where you take in the local sanitary officer to do your work, is it the Minister for Agriculture will decide what remuneration is to be paid ?

It is, but naturally it is a matter for agreement. In the Bill, of course, it is in the Minister's hands.