I move amendment No. 4:

In page 18, subsection (5), lines 35 and 36, to delete " scientific or educational purposes " and substitute " such scientific, educational or other purposes as shall be specified in the licence ".

This section will enable the Minister, by order, to provide protection from wilful damage or destruction for particular species of wild plants and their habitats either throughout the State or in areas of special interest.

Subsection (5) enables the Minister to grant licences to take protected plants or interfere with the habitat of such plants for scientific or educational purposes.

It has been represented to me that a person might seek to do certain reasonable acts which were neither of a scientific nor educational nature and which could interfere with or alter the habitat of protected flora, though not to any significant extent. I accept the point and am proposing this amendment in order to provide the necessary flexibility to meet reasonable requests.

This would be related to areas like The Burren in County Clare.

It might be reasonable to permit a person to remove sand or gravel from an area which is the habitat of protected flora without damaging the flora or the habitat to any appreciable extent.

What would be the position of teachers bringing students to protected areas? This is a very desirable development and it would be a pity if, in the interests of protecting what is there, people were deprived of the opportunity of developing an interest in our flora. There is nothing in this section which would in any way prohibit teachers so motivated, is there?

No.

There is no danger that they would find themselves guilty of an offence?

I am sure neither teachers nor people interested would interfere with the flora in any way. Accordingly, there is this protection and they would be encouraged to go to study and learn.

They would not be digging up the flora.

I move amendment No. 5:

In page 19, subsection (7), to insert " lawfully " before " imported " in line 3.

As I indicated in discussing the previous amendment, section 21 is concerned with the protection of certain wild plants and their habitats. Subsection (7) provides in essence that an offence will not lie in respect of a wild plant which is imported even though it is of the same species as a protected species under the Bill. However, there are restrictions in section 52 relating to the importation of certain wild plants and for that reason it is necessary to incorporate this minor amendment in order not to clash with those provisions. This is really a technical drafting point.

This section will now read:

The Minister may grant a licence to a person for such scientific or educational purposes as shall be specified in the licence.

As the section stood the Minister could only grant a licence for scientific or educational purposes. It was considered that in certain circumstances that might be too narrow and too confined and it was proposed to add: " or other purposes as shall be specified in the licence."

Who issues this licence?

The Minister for lands.

Is a teacher bringing children on a nature walk required to have a licence?

It is necessary to read the whole section. The licence is to protect the flora. I do not see the licence being granted to a school outing and I do not think it would be sought.

I did not envisage that. I was concerned about the introduction of licences and the regard we have for protection which might in some way inhibit teachers. If I can be assured by the Minister that will not be the position I am quite happy.

It will not.