asked the Minister for Lands if he will furnish details of the grants available for private afforestation; and when the grants were last revised.

Grants are paid at the rate of £35 per acre, £20 being paid on the satisfactory formation of the plantation and the balance after seven years if the plantation has been satisfactorily maintained in the meantime. An additional £5 per acre is payable with the second instalment if there are sufficient hardwood trees to form a crop. The grant is £25 per acre in the case of popular planting divided into two payments of £15 and £10 on the basis stated.

An additional scrub clearance grant to a maximum of £20 per acre is payable on a scaled basis where appropriate. The Forest and Wildlife Service also provide a free technical advisory service on planting methods, suitable species and so on.

The planting grants were last revised and became operative from the 1972-73 planting season.

Would the Minister accept that if the Forestry Division were serious about this scheme they would have revised the grants since 1972?

I do not agree. I believe that a revision in 1973 would perhaps mean another revision around about 1977. You cannot revise these things every year.

Why not?

Because the period of time from the previous revision would not indicate the need for a further revision.

Surely the Minister is not suggesting, if in 1972 a certain grant was considered appropriate to attract a farmer to any scheme, that there is not some need now for upgrading that grant having regard to the diminishing value of money?

I agree it should be looked at now but not before.

I thought, as the Minister is a farmer, he would be more hard-headed about grants than that.

I regard this as a capital grant. They would not be reviewed as frequently as other grants. As there was a revision in 1972-73 this would indicate the necessity for a further revision around about now. I believe that is fair enough.

Would the Minister accept that in respect of private afforestation we have the worst record in Europe, possibly in the world?

The Deputy is now expressing opinions. I will not join with him in the expression of an opinion about something I know nothing about.

Would the Minister accept that out of the total afforestation lands in the country only 10 per cent are in the hands of private owners and that that is a very unsatisfactory situation?

It does not look so good if those figures are correct.

Would the Minister accept that it would be worth his while to apply himself to a scheme to make private afforestation attractive to farmers?

You can do anything with money. The grants fixed in 1972-73 seemed to me to be attractive.

Has the Minister made any inquiries from the Forestry Division about the increased cost per acre of planting and care of trees in the last four years? The Minister mentioned there was no case for the revision of grants.

That is not what I indicated. I indicated that grants of a capital nature fixed in 1972-73 would now perhaps need revision. It would be extraordinary if the State were to review grants of a capital nature every year particularly in relation to something like afforestation which is a long term business where profits and reward for one's labour will not come forward for perhaps another 25 years.

Surely the Minister has some indication from his Department of the increased cost of planting and care of trees? Costs have increased by nearly 100 per cent.

I indicated to Deputy Tunney already that perhaps now is the time to look at this again but hardly in 1973-74 after 1972-73.