asked the Minister for Justice the total number of applications for membership of the Garda Síochána received between 15th March, 1974, and 15th January, 1977, from applicants who stated that they had the leaving certificate or higher educational standard.

The available records indicate that of the 3,077 persons who applied for membership of the force in the period mentioned, 1,776 were holders of the leaving certificate.

Would the Minister indicate the proposed standard of examination in respect of the 500 garda who will be recruited?

I have not got the particulars here but I will send the Deputy a copy of the syllabus which has been published setting out the details of the subjects and the standards which will be expected.

Is it likely to be higher than the leaving certificate?

It is not.

Is it not possible then to recruit from those applicants that the Minister had on hand prior to the announcement for a sufficiency of gardaí for the much-needed services that are required and have been required over the last couple of years?

It would be, but even among gardaí who had the leaving certificate it would have been necessary to hold the examination in order to establish an order of merit. In addition to that we had to consider those applicants who did not have the leaving certificate and it would be unjust to deprive them without adequate notice of the opportunity of competing for entrance to the Garda Síochána. Many of them have not done the leaving certificate through no fault of their own. Many of them might have very good intermediate certificates. It would have been unfair to have excluded them. That consideration plus the need to establish an order of merit coerced me into the decision that a competitive examination was the only fair way to deal with the problem.

If the standard of education required for this competition, which we are all waiting for, is to be lower than the leaving certificate, surely the Minister would agree that the holders of the leaving certificate would have a head start in sitting for that open competitive examination over the people who have not got that standard of education. Would the Minister say whether or not as a result of what I call the change in the regulations——

It is not a change.

It is a change in the system of recruiting. Can the Minister say whether or not there will be oral examinations or interviews?

May I say that I do not accept necessarily that the people with leaving certificates will have a head start over other applicants? I think I made it clear that you can have excellent people with very high IQs who for some good reason were not able to do the leaving certificate. Also, nowadays a person can have the leaving certificate with just one subject whereas four years ago there had to be a certain minimum number of subjects, so possession of the leaving certificate is not necessarily a mark of academic excellence. There is of course an interview procedure as well.

Would the Minister in his offer to Deputy Tunney in circulating a copy of the syllabus send me also not just a copy of the syllabus but a copy of the standards for the interview as well?

I will.

There must be some basis if you are going to interview people, there must be a certain standard of applicant and I would like to know how that is going to operate.

If there is information on that I will issue it to the Deputy.