asked the Minister for Fisheries if, in view of the serious position of the fishing industry due to depletion of stocks, he will consider making grants available to enable fishermen who so desire to adapt to industrial and other types of fishing which are not traditionally carried out by this country's fishing fleet.

An Bord Iascaigh Mhara operate a grant and loan scheme for adapting and improving fishing boats. An approved applicant is eligible for a grant of 25 per cent and a loan at the current subsidised interest rate of 8 per cent per annum. As part of their overall policy for the development of the sea fishing industry the board encourage fishermen to fish for species other than those traditionally fished.

Is the Minister telling the House that grants are available for fishermen who wish to change from the traditional type fishing to other types of fishing and can he say when these grants were introduced?

A grant scheme is available for adapting and improving fishing boats. Therefore, a skipper who wished to adapt his vessel for a type of fishing in which he had not engaged in previously would be eligible to apply for both the grant and loan. To give an example of the situation—for engines, winches and line haulers a skipper owner is asked for only 7½ per cent while other persons are asked for 15 per cent. The grant in this case is 25 per cent and the loan as agreed in each case subject to a maximum of 67½ per cent of total cost is at a subsidised interest rate of 8 per cent for not more than ten years. In respect of electronic devices— radio, sonar, echo sounder, radar and decca navigator—the minimum repayment is 25 per cent while the grant, too, is 25 per cent and the loan as agreed in each case, subject to a maximum of 50 per cent of total cost, is at a subsidised interest rate of 8 per cent subject to variation, for not more than three years.

In the case of decca navigator the facilities are related only to the cost of installation and necessary ancillary equipment which is not the subject of any rental agreement. In respect of structural development—for example, hold insulation, improved accommodation, improved wheelhouse and so on—the terms are: grant, 25 per cent, repayment 25 per cent with the loan being on the same terms as for electronic equipment. These aids are not specifically for the purpose referred to by the Deputy but they help in that regard.

BIM, particularly since the decline in herring stocks, have been encouraging fishermen to diversify their fishing activities to include varieties for which they have not fished formerly, for example, sprats, dogfish and blue whiting. Advice is given by the board in methods of fishing for these species and occasionally specialised gear is made available for this purpose. Where finances permit, fishermen are subsidised to engage in exploratory fishing for these species.

An example of this activity is the recent effort by BIM to encourage fishing for sprat for human consumption off the south-east coast. The board succeeded to the extent that six fishing vessels transferred to sprat fishing in the area at the close of the herring season by arranging a market for the catches of sprat made by the vessels. The results to date are encouraging.

The board hope also to extend these operations in the near future to other varieties such as blue whiting, ling and dogfish. It is understood, however, that the finances available to BIM at present will not be sufficient to enable them to subsidise fishermen who wish to engage in such fishing either by providing gear or by guaranteeing the fishermen minimum earnings while they are so engaged. The latter may be what Deputy Gallagher is trying to establish. It is of course a matter for the board to decide how their allocation of funds is expended.

The Department have strong reservations about encouraging industrial fishing, for example, aimed fishing for fishmeal. Fishermen generally share the Department's view in this regard. The problems with industrial fishing is the use of small mesh nets which result in by-catches of immature fish of commercial species.

I thank the Minister for that long reply but it was totally irrelevant to the question I tabled. In his original reply the Minister said that grants were not available in respect of adapting to new types of fishing. Having regard to the fact that stocks of fish of the traditional types are dwindling to such an extent, will the Minister ask BIM to make available the necessary moneys to enable people to adapt to other types of fishing, particularly industrial fishing?

We are doing that but one of the problems in regard to industrial fishing is, as I have said, the by-catching of immature fish of known valuable species. If, for instance, in the process of industrial fishing millions of young herrings were caught, the effect would be very bad in the context of the conservation of that species. The same would apply in respect of plaice, for instance.