asked the Minister for Fisheries if he will establish a national fishing fleet using An Bord Iascaigh Mhara as the executive agency; and purchase surplus fishing vessels which are now available.

I am not quite clear as to what the Deputy has in mind but I would like to point out that we already have a national fishing fleet which has been expanding rapidly with the aid of substantial financial assistance from the State.

I apologise if my question is not phrased as accurately as it should be—I mean a State-owned fishing fleet.

I do not think that is on. I do not think it is practicable. Our present system of having a boat-owner fishing fleet is one we should work on with the aid of State help through the marine credit plan in particular, providing loans and grants for the purchase of boats and gear and in that way build a fishing fleet. Investment in a State fishing fleet as such would be anathema to the sort of development that has taken place in Irish sea fisheries and in my view would not be on as a commercial possibility today.

In view of the fact that we are changing totally the extent of our fishing boundaries and zone, would the Minister not agree that the private sector has demonstrated its total incapacity in the past to exploit the resources of a narrow coastal zone and to expect it in a short period suddenly to expand to possibly 50 miles is being over-optimistic no matter what sort of grants are given and that the only alternative realistically is a State-owned fishing fleet?

I do not think the Deputy is aware that European fishing operators within the Community are now winding down their fleets. Certainly, there is no commercial future for a State-owned fishing fleet on all the information available to me.

If it is not on for a State-owned fleet, why should it be on for a privately owned fleet?

Because of the nature of the fishing industry and its requirements as regards the personnel engaged in it. It is essentially a type of industry that demands personal initiative and we shall help that in every way.

Are you denying that personal initiative has a role in the State sector?

This is becoming an argument.

It is not a sociological debate we are having.

But the Minister made the point that there is no room for personal initiative in the State sector.

15.