asked the Minister for Tourism and Transport the present estimated loss for the B & I in 1987; the steps he proposes to take to bring the company to profitability, the plans, if any, he has for the future of the company; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

24.

asked the Minister for Tourism and Transport the present position regarding the financial difficulties facing B & I; the proposals, if any, he has to maintain and improve the equity base of the company; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 and 24 together. The company's net loss for 1986 was £6.8 million. The loss for 1987 is expected to be greater. I am at present considering proposals made to me by the board of the B & I aimed at improving the situation. I am not yet in a position, however, to make a statement on the matter.

The Minister states that the position for 1987 is worse. Might I ask him: how much worse and what will be the projected losses by the end of the current year?

I am afraid I am unable to give the Deputy that information as of now. As I said in my reply, it is expected that the loss for 1987 will be greater than that incurred in 1986.

Are the losses jeopardising the future of the company? Can the Minister give the House a guarantee that the company will remain in operation?

The whole position of the company will come up for consideration. The Government will be taking decisions the board of B & I and they are the As I said, the proposals were made by board of the B & I and they are the subject of consideration for the purposes of improving the position of the company.

That would indicate that the Minister and the Government are very worried, if not dissatisfied, with the performance of the company, so there is a question mark over the future of the company.

The Deputy is trying to lead me. The fact is that any State or semi-State company which is losing money is a matter of concern considering the present very tight financial situation.

I am somewhat confused here. I asked a similar question with regard to B & I and Sealink and the cartel arrangement between them, and the Minister said he had not any responsibility in that matter, that it was a matter for the companies themselves. I cannot reconcile that comment with some of those he has just made. Could we establish exactly what are his responsibilities in relation to the B & I?

My responsibilities are simple; it is a State-owned company. The Deputy will realise that Sealink is a privately-owned company and, consequently, one in which I have no say with regard to whatever arrangements they may make, even those with a company wholly-owned by the State. I cannot talk about Sealink. It is a private company that takes its own business decisions and makes it own arrangements.

I accept the Minister's comments in regard to Sealink but not in regard to the B & I, a major partner in this deal. Surely the Minister can comment on the B & I end of this cartel agreement in regard to capacity sharing and price fixing?

If the Deputy puts down a question to that effect I will answer him fully. The arrangement at present is the sharing of the profits on the southern corridor and sharing of revenue on the Dún Laoghaire-Holyhead and Dublin-Liverpool routes.

In view of the many occasions on which the Minister, when on this side of the House, expressed concern about another shipping company which was wholly-owned by the State, would he indicate whether he will show the same concern — in regard to Question No. 24 — to increase the equity base to ensure that the State company, B & I, will remain operational?

The Deputy is fully aware that in the tight financial situation in which we find ourselves, there is no money available for equity.

One of the many extraordinary facts that emerged as a result of the Zeebrugge ferry disaster was the under-estimation of the passenger list and the cargo being carried. Does the Minister think we may have a problem in this regard in relation to a State company, that we may not have full details of passengers or cargo?

On occasion people who have not paid their way have been found on board and that has been reported in the newspapers. After the Zeebrugge disaster I got in touch immediately with all the ferry companies operating into and out of Ireland and asked for assurances with regard to safety. I did not ask about the numbers, my main concern being to have as many as possible on board but, of course, not beyond the regulations.

Can the Minister indicate whether B & I will take part in any studies that may be necessary into this whole area of shipping as a result of the Zeebrugge disaster?

I got an assurance and a detailed answer to my queries at that time which indicated that great care is taken by both ICL and B & I with regard to the safety of passengers in a way which, apparently, was not true of the boat that unfortunately sank at Zeebrugge.

Is the Minister happy that the accounting system in relation to the operation of the B & I line is as it should be?

In so far as I know as of now, I am happy. My only regret is that there are not more passengers using the B & I line at present.

Is it possible that more people are using it than the Minister is aware of?

I do not think so.