asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will outline the Government's strategy for industrial job creation.

The Government's strategy for industrial job creation is set out in the Programme for National Recovery which was published on 9 October 1987.

The objective of Government policy will be the creation of approximately 20,000 extra jobs in manufacturing industry on average each year over the next ten years with the actual provision accelerating as the programme policies take effect.

The programme for employment creation is being developed on a sectoral basis and will build upon the more competitive environment generated by the Government's fiscal and monetary policies. This sectoral development strategy will be based on:

—market research at home and abroad which will indentify development and employment potential;

—our natural resources;

—the new advanced skills in our workforce and

—the achievement of increased market share in selected sectors and markets.

with specific and realistic job opportunities being identified for each sector. Sectoral job opportunities covering such sectors as food, horticulture, tourism, marine and manufacturing, have already been identified and are detailed in the programme.

Other aspects of the policy being undertaken to expand and diversify our industrial base include:

—the rationalisation of the industrial promotion agencies;

—giving greater priority to the market and technological orientation of indigenous industry through the expansion and growth of selected Irish companies firmly rooted in the economy;

—a shift in resources from the support of fixed asset investment to the upgrading of marketing, product development, R and D and management expertise;

—the linking of State support to the achievement of specific employment targets;

—the establishment of trading houses to provide a new and effective export service to indigenous firms to help them increase their share of overseas markets;

—the establishment of Ministerial Offices for Trade and Marketing and for Science and Technology; and

—the promotion of investment from overseas designed to give greater emphasis to the integration of such investments into the Irish economy.

Will the Minister agree that the job proposals in the plan he referred to are purely aspirational? For example, the plan states that the beef industry should provide 1,000 new jobs over five years and that in regard to toolmaking output can be increased to around £20 million giving 1,000 extra jobs. There is no reference in the plan as to how those jobs can be created. In the course of his reply the Minister referred to the "competitive environment". I wonder if he will agree that the creation of the environment he mentioned — the former Government mentioned the environment for the four years they were in office — to induce manufacturing to provide extra jobs causes job losses? Will he agree that that has occurred consistently in recent years and that, on his own estimate, it will result in a further 14,000 job losses in the coming year? When does the Minister consider that job creation will begin?

I do not propose to comment on what the previous Government talked about for four and a half years. I will confine my comments to what we have talked about and achieved since we came into Government in the important and critical area of creating the right environment for investment. As the House will be well aware, interest rates have come down by 5 percentage points since we came into office. At the level of interest rates previously existing, it was unrealistic to expect investors to invest. There are very few businesses here of which I would be aware that could borrow money at the then interest rates and hope to be able to make repayment on any investment.

What about the jobs?

The environment has to be right for investment; otherwise you would not get jobs. This is what has been wrong with this country for far too long. You start at the base. You put in a foundation before you build a house. That is exactly what has been taking place over the last seven months since this Government come into office.

£15 million.

Deputy McCartan should cease interupting.

The economy is already improving. The inflation rate is down by at least 3 per cent, which was part of the last Government's strategy. That gives a competitive edge to our exporters in their main trading market of the UK. Those are the economic factors that matter. I am talking about sustainable jobs. If you want to create phantom jobs, here today and gone tomorrow, that is a different situation. We are not in that business any more, but in that of creating sustainable jobs, building the foundation to create those jobs. That is what it is all about. If the Deputy refers to the various sectors which this Government have identified for growth and investment, he will see that the jobs there reastically can and will be created within the sectors as enunciated in the programme.

It is amusing to hear a Fianna Fáil Minister talking about putting down a foundation when one thinks of what that Government did in 1977. That was some foundation. Did I hear the Minister listing as one of their achievements the establishment of a Department of Trade and Marketing?

The Office of Trade and Marketing.

Just the office? He is in the little office? What is the Minister of State, Deputy Brennan, doing besides trying to upstage the Minister himself?

The Deputy is underestimating me.

Has he any other role?

He is smaller than I am and would have a few ladders to climb to get up to me.

Exactly. But what about the Department of Agriculture?

Could I remind the Deputy, when he talks about building foundations, that if we had not had to face the huge task of trying to service the National Debt which doubled in the four and a half years that he and his party and other colleagues were in Government, we would have had a much smaller job to do. We would have built a foundation much more quidkly. We are getting on with creating real jobs.

Would the Minister like to go back to his Government's performance in 1977?

During the last four and a half years, the National Debt was doubled. That is why income tax is so high and why we are not getting development. Let the Deputy not try to wash that fact away. The history books will record that his Government have been the worst in the history of this State.

I call Deputy Cullen.

Does the Minister not agree——

Oil at $39 a barrel for crude oil then, but $13 in 1977.

Was there consultation between the Minister and his Department and the Minister for Tourism and his Department and if so, on what specific basis have they arrived at the figure of 20,000 jobs to be created in tourism?

I would remind the Deputy that that is a question for the Minister for Tourism and I have no doubt that he would be only too delighted to answer the question when the Deputy sees fit to put down a question to him.

Deputy Nealon.

The Minister referred to tourism in his reply.

Deputy Nealon has been called.

Could the Minister tell the House what part of the excellent programme for industrial job creation which he has just announced will have to be scrapped in view of the savage cuts in yesterday's Estimates, particularly those involving the IDA which figure prominently in the programme he has announced?

That is a separate question, but I shall take the opportunity of answering the Deputy in case he is not here when it comes up. No part of the programme for national recovery will be affected by the cutbacks in the IDA. Let me explain to the Deputy, in case he does not understand. First, the cutback in the IDA of approximately——

On a point of order, could I bring to the attention of the Ceann Comhairle that the subject matter of this question is down for priority? I think that it should be dealt with in priority time.

I am quite agreeable to adhere to the ruling of the Chair.

That is an important aspect of the matter and regard should be had to it. A final supplementary question from Deputy Mac Giolla.

A Cheann Comhairle——

Deputy Cullen, I have already heard you.

I did not get an answer to my question.

I am trying to get from the Minister an indication of when he expects the environment to be right for the jobs to start coming. I want to know if he has endorsed the comments of the Tánaiste that in the meantime people should get off this island. When does the Minister think that the Tánaiste will be able to say that the people may come back? Basically, I want to know when it will all start. I regret the barracking from the Deputy.

When will the Tánaiste come back?

I am sure that the Tánaiste will be well capable of answering for himself in this House when he gets back from Europe. In relation to the Deputy's question, first, for the first half of this year and this is a well known fact — others have said this as well — the number of projects coming through the pipeline of industrial development was extremely small but in the last few weeks there has been an upsurge, which is a reflection of the decisiveness of the Government in giving the right image abroad in relation to the problems of tackling the financial situation. I am sure that the Deputy is only too well aware of the adverse comments made abroad before, during and after the General Election about the state of the Irish economy. It was referred to by the economists as a "third world economy unwilling and unable to face up to its responsibilities in tackling its financial problems." The situation is beginning to come right. This economy cannot be isolated from what is happening on foreign markets. There is at the moment a tendency for interest rates to edge up, but the publication of the Book of Estimates will at least stabilise the situation and give investment a chance to take place and from that jobs will flow. Investment today, jobs tomorrow.

I am going on to Question No. 11.

Is the Minister suggesting that this country can operate independent of what is happening internationally?

I said that the publication of the Book of Estimates should help to stabilise interest rates while they are tending to go up abroad. When they go up abroad, we cannot stand in isolation. That is what I am saying.

I call Question No. 11.

Could I ask a final supplementary question, please?

I have called the next question.

I did not get an answer to my question.

Deputy Cullen will desist from interrupting. When I call the next question, I mean what I say.