asked the Minister for Defence the number of Army personnel whose applications for discharge from the Army are currently before him; and the rank in each case.

20.

asked the Minister for Defence the number of members of the Defence Force who requested permission to leave in recent months.

(Limerick West): I propose to take Questions Nos. 13 and 20 together.

During the period 1 January to 31 December 1988 a total of 965 men were discharged from the Permanent Defence Force, an average of 80.4 per month. During the six months from 1 August 1988 to 31 January 1989 the total number of discharges was 490, giving an average of 81.7 per month.

A total of 192 men have recently applied for discharge broken down as follows:

In accordance with paragraph 39 (3) of Defence Force Regulations A. 11 a man who has been granted special leave prior to terminating his service in the Permanent Defence Force is permitted, before the time of expiry of such leave: (a) to extend the term of his original enlistment; (b) to re-engage to complete 21 years' service; or (c) to continue in service after 21 years' service. The period of such special leave will be deducted from any leave for which he may be eligible should he again apply to terminate his service with the Permanent Defence Force. For this reason, the number of men who have applied for discharge and who will actually avail of discharge is not certain.

Do I take it from the Minister's reply that 192 men have applied for discharge by purchase from the Army in recent times and that is the total number of applications that lie currently before the Minister? Would he accept that is a clear indication of the groundswell of dissatisfaction present in the Defence Force and the low morale which has caused so many men to reconsider their careers in the Defence Force? Does this large figure not give rise to grave concern to the Government about the continued effectiveness of our security forces if so many have applied to leave in such a short time, with the obvious rumblings of dissatisfaction we have heard on a regular basis over the last few months because of the pay and conditions?

(Limerick West): No, I do not accept that at all. The figures do not indicate that. For the Deputy's information, in November 85 left and last December 60 left. In January of this year 84 left, comprising one sergeant-major, one company sergeant, 12 sergeants, 11 corporals and 59 privates, eight of whom were recruits. The figures clearly indicate that, as I said, the personnel in the Army are as numerous now as when the Deputy was Minister for Defence.

I put it to the Minister that an unprecedented number of NCOs, 46, have applied for discharge by purchase. That is absolutely unprecedented in this Army.

(Limerick West): The question clearly asks the number of people who have requested permission to leave in recent months and I have given the information to the Deputy. The figures are clear. They are on record, and I can deal only in facts, not in fiction which the Deputy is dealing in.

Would the Minister agree that those 46 NCOs will represent a serious lack of important personnel in the security forces? It is most unreasonable of him to state that this is not a matter of concern when obviously it must be and certainly is to the senior officers in the Defence Forces who are experssing concern to us.

(Limerick West): I do not accept that. If there was concern there must have been concern when the Deputy was Minister——

(Limerick West):——or when Deputy Connaughton's Government were in office because the situation is the same now as it was then. The figures prove that and I have given the figures.

The spouses were not out on the streets.

(Limerick West): If the Deputy's Government had done something about the pay and conditions of the Defence Forces those women would not be on the streets now. We are doing something about it. His Government did nothing.

They were not on the streets.

I do not think it is a question of which Government did what, but of the facts. I know a little about the Army. I served 29——

Ceist, le do thoil, a Theachta.

I do not need to be preached at. The figures are there to prove that the number of troops leaving the Defence Forces is greater——

We must proceed by way of supplementary questions. The Deputy is making an assertion or a statement.

What will the Minister do to rectify a situation where more personnel are leaving the Army than are coming into it?

(Limerick West): The Deputy's party were part of the previous Government to whom I have just referred and they did damn all about it. The Deputy is expressing great concern now. As I have said, I am dealing in facts, not fiction.

The facts are there.

(Limerick West): I am not going to repeat the facts. I have given full information to the Deputy. I can do no more. If the Deputy cannot add that is not my problem.

The Minister did not answer the question which is whether he would agree that more personnel are going out of the Army than joining.

Question No. 14.

He is not answering any questions.

Not one.