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Dáil

Finance Bill 2011: Motion

Bill Finance Bill 2011
Enacted

No. 8 of 2011 ›

I move:

That, not withstanding anything in Standing Orders, or in the Order of the Dáil of 25 January 2011,

(1) the Report and Final Stages of No. 4 should be taken on the conclusion of the Financial Resolutions proposed in respect of Report Stage;

(2) the proceedings on the Report and Final Stages of No. 4 shall be brought to a conclusion in accordance with the following timetable:

Amendments offered to Part 1 to conclude after three hours,

Amendments offered to Parts 2 to 5 to conclude after one hour and 20 minutes,

Amendments to Part 6, including Schedules and Fifth Stage, to conclude not later than 5 p.m.,

and

(3) where the proceedings have not concluded by the stated time, they shall be brought to a conclusion by one question, which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance;

(4) where a division is claimed on the proceedings on No. 4, other than a question put as provided for in accordance with paragraph (3), that is, a guillotine question, the taking of such a division and the putting of any question contingent thereon shall be postponed until

(a) immediately before the next time appointed for the putting of a question in accordance with paragraph (3), that is, a guillotine question; or

(b) in the event of such a question not being put, when proceedings on Report Stage, including on recommital, on the matters which would have been decided by the putting of such a question would have otherwise been completed.

Comment on this

Arising from that, will the Chief Whip or the Minister for Finance indicate to the House the Government's intention with regard to the dissolution of the Dáil and the holding of the general election? The order that has now been agreed will provide for the completion——

Comment on this
Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

We do not have approbation for an Order of Business this morning.

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For old time's sake, a Cheann Comhairle.

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In fairness, I believe the Minister for Finance is willing to——

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Brian Lenihan Minister for Finance Fianna Fáil

I am very happy to deal with the matter because once again Deputy Gilmore has displayed considerable constitutional ignorance. The Government has no function——

Comment on this

I hope the Deputy will get in training for the high offices to which he aspires.

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A Deputy

He will be more successful.

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The position, of course, is that the Government does not dissolve the Dáil and has no function in regard to its dissolution. The President dissolves the Dáil on the advice——

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It is the courtesy——

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——of the Taoiseach and that is a matter that lies between the President and the Taoiseach.

Comment on this

That is a seminar we do not need now.

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Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Gilmore, I ask for your co-operation.

Comment on this

On that point, I assure the Minister for Finance I am very familiar with the provisions of the Constitution, so familiar, in fact, I understand the constitutional requirement to be that the Taoiseach should offer his resignation when he no longer commands the support of a majority of Members of the House. That is manifestly the case at——

Comment on this
Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

We cannot open up a debate on this matter.

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Hold on a second——

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Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

It is an inappropriate time.

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We have a Constitution——

Comment on this
Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

We are here to discuss the remaining Stages of the Finance Bill.

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We have a Constitution which clearly states the Taoiseach shall submit his resignation to the President when he no longer has the support of a majority of Members of the House. That is clearly the case currently and there is precedent for this. It is a matter for the President to allow the Taoiseach to continue in a caretaker capacity. When does the Taoiseach intend to comply with the provisions of the Constitution, submit his resignation to the President and make arrangements for the dissolution of the Dáil?

Comment on this
Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I call Deputy Noonan and ask him to be brief as we must move on.

Comment on this

If it is not irrelevant I would like to return to the order for the Finance Bill as that is what we are here for. Supposing we proceed more rapidly and Report Stage concludes before 5 p.m., at what time is Fifth Stage scheduled and when will the vote for the passing of the Bill take place?

Comment on this

It follows automatically.

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Subject to the Ceann Comhairle's ruling and procedures of the House, the Government can proceed directly to Fifth Stage if that is the wish.

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I asked the question because I wonder if it is a satisfactory position for the Whip.

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Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

That will be the sequence as ordered.

Comment on this

It is always the sequence.

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I know it is always the sequence. Committee Stage went down last night earlier than expected. There was no vote at that point. After Report Stage we will move to Fifth Stage and out of delicacy and interest — the Whips have a difficult job — I wonder if the vote is brought forward from 5 p.m. will the troops be lined up? What would happen if we go down at 2.30 p.m., for example?

Comment on this

Will the Deputy's troops be here?

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The Deputy could have a job that is just as difficult.

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They will be here all right.

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We will be here.

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A Cheann Comhairle——

Comment on this
Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I have allowed the Deputy's party leader to contribute.

Comment on this

With just two Government amendments to the Bill on Report Stage, I suggest it is possible for everybody in the Chamber who wishes to contribute to finish the debate possibly an hour earlier than set out in the schedule. We would like to be advised of the flexibility available in the event of that possibility becoming a reality.

Comment on this
Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

That is provided for in the schedule.

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We must move on quickly.

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Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I ask Deputy Doherty to be quick as we must get back to the debate.

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I rise to oppose the guillotine placed on Report Stage of the Finance Bill. I am conscious that last night the debate fell on certain sections.

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Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I have put the question and the House has agreed it.

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This relates to the ordering of the business of the House today and the timeframe being set out for different stages. I raised the matter yesterday. We took 88 amendments in what is probably the most crucial part of the Finance Bill——

Comment on this
Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

This has already been agreed and we cannot revisit the matter.

Comment on this

——in one hour and 20 minutes of debate. There is no reason not to allow it if Deputies want to allow the debate to continue later in the night. We are paid to be here and should stay until 11 p.m. or midnight. If the debate falls before that, so be it.

Comment on this
Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

We had unanimity on this all of ten minutes ago.

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There should be flexibility and I oppose the ordering of the business of the House.

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Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

We must move on.

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The Finance Bill is being rushed through within seven hours.

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We stayed until the end of the debate last night.

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Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy, please.

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Sinn Féin did not even table an amendment.

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Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

There is no provision for this type of debate on the ordering of business this morning.

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The party did not put down amendments.

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We did. The Deputy should look at the list.

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Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Doherty should resume his seat.

Comment on this

She should read the amendments.

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Seamus Kirk An Ceann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

We are moving on.

Comment on this

Will the Whip provide clarity on the point? As I understand it, the order provides that the amendments offered to Part 1 should conclude after three hours. Given that effectively all the amendments deal with Part 1, there could be a position where the House would have dealt with the grouping by 1.45 p.m. The question is whether we can have more time if we have only dealt with 28 of the 52 amendments by that time? This would ensure that the House could reach all the amendments.

Comment on this

There is an agreed schedule for the business today and the Government will comply with it. If there are reasonable requests for variations, we will examine them as we proceed.

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That is fine.

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That is the way to deal with the matter. I do not wish to get involved in the ordering of the House beyond that. Deputy Gilmore introduced an extraneous matter which I must refer to as he was allowed to deal with the matter on the record of the House. He suggested that the Taoiseach was somehow under an obligation to furnish his resignation forthwith but he is not. The procedures of the House govern this.

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He is obliged.

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By agreement, the motions of confidence have been deferred until next Tuesday. The House must express its will.

Comment on this

He does not have the support.

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The Taoiseach made the point the other day that for too long there has been a constant insinuation that properly constituted and nominated officeholders, appointed by the President, have no authority because they do not have a mandate arising from an opinion poll or from an undefined and ascertained parliamentary procedure.

Comment on this

Nobody said that.

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That is the clear implication of Deputy Gilmore's comments this morning and from the last two years. Now that we are submitting ourselves to the people, we should show a little more respect for our representative institutions.

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