The Order of Business is No. 10a, Supplementary Estimates for Public Services [Vote 3] - back from committee; No. 10, the Public Service Management (Recruitment and Appointments) (Amendment) Bill 2013 [Seanad] – motion to instruct committee (resumed); and No. 21, Public Service Management (Recruitment and Appointments) (Amendment) Bill 2013 [Seanad] - Report and Final Stages (resumed).

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 10a shall be decided without debate and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith.

There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 10a, Supplementary Estimates for Public Services, without debate agreed to?

It is not agreed. I acknowledge that this issue was debated this morning at the health committee but it would have been preferable if we had the service plan for 2014 before us when discussing the Supplementary Estimates for 2013. I raise one issue with the Tánaiste. The Estimate is for €219 million. I understand the Tánaiste is saying there are other savings which will net off about €20 million.

We cannot have a discussion on it here now.

If we can clarify one issue it might make it a bit more straightforward. The Estimate is €219 million as opposed to €199 million. Can the Tánaiste clarify that matter please?

No, he cannot. We cannot have a debate on the issue here. This is a technical issue, whether we do it without debate or not.

The difficulty with all of this is more than just technical, a Cheann Comhairle-----

No. It is purely a technical issue-----

-----in terms of how we proceed.

-----whether we have a debate or we do not; it is as simple as that.

Can I suggest that a debate is badly needed because-----

Okay. Vote against the proposal.

-----on the one hand we are bringing forward a Supplementary Estimate, which is a recognition that the health budget has overrun or fallen short, and on the other we have not had sight of the plan that proposes €666 million of cuts? I ask the Tánaiste to square that circle if he can.

Tánaiste, this is without debate.

Yes. This issue was dealt with at the health committee this morning. I believe the discussion lasted over an hour and a half.

In the absence of the service plan.

The issue here-----

No service plan.

-----as is normally the case when issues like this come back from committee, is that they are taken without debate on the floor of the House.