It is proposed to take No. 4, Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2014 - Second Stage (resumed); and No. 10 - motion re establishment of joint committee of inquiry into the banking crisis.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the proceedings in relation to No. 10 shall be taken at 4 p.m. today and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after two hours and five minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: the speech of the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and of the leaders of Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, or a person nominated in their stead, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, and such Members may share their time,

and the speech of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin, the Technical Group, a representative of others and Deputy Ciarán Lynch, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed ten minutes in each case, and such Members may share their time. Private Members’ business shall be No. 146, motion re discretionary medical cards (resumed), to conclude at 9 p.m., if not previously concluded.

Tomorrow’s business after Oral Questions shall be No. 4, Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2014 - Second Stage (resumed).

There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 10 agreed to? Agreed.

Under the programme for Government the Taoiseach has committed to significant reform of the committee system, in particular that the head of any Department or State body would make himself or herself available to committees. I am concerned that the Secretary General of the Department of Justice and Equality wrote to the clerk of the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality to say that he would attend the committee but would not answer any question on the departure of the former Garda Commissioner. I put it to the Taoiseach that the response flies in the face of the commitment in the programme for Government on the first page of the political reform section to the effect that the chief executive of every State body, agency and Department should go before committees and answer the questions they would be ordinarily asked.

It is fair to say that the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality has specific questions to ask on the circumstances surrounding the departure of the former Garda Commissioner and should be allowed to ask them and the Secretary General should answer them. Will the Taoiseach indicate whether the Secretary General's position is in conformity with the programme for Government and whether he will intervene to ensure the committee is allowed to do its work? Could the Taoiseach also indicate when the universal primary care Act will be introduced?

In respect of the first question, I note that the Secretary General is attending the committee tomorrow to deal with the issues arising from the Guerin report. Deputy Martin is well aware that because of other matters, a commission of investigation has been set up and an appointment has been made of a Supreme Court judge to deal with a range of matters which include the subject of the first question asked by the Deputy. The sole member has absolute discretion in the work and responsibility he has undertaken. The Secretary General's letter makes that clear. His intention in attending the committee is in accordance with his responsibility as Secretary General. A commission of investigation has been set up for a specific purpose and is running after two weeks. It is an exceptional measure and is not referred to in the programme for Government.

The Secretary General should not be precluded from answering questions.

Deputy Martin asked me about the White Paper. The consultation process is now beginning on the White Paper. It will focus on the range of services-----

I asked about universal primary care.

I will have to come back to the Deputy on the matter which is the responsibility of the Minister of State, Deputy Alex White.

I have two questions, one of which concerns the Government's timetable for its response to the Guerin report. The Taoiseach should have made it clear that the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality will be allowed to do its work. I am disappointed he did not do that in terms of the appearance by the Secretary General of the Department of Justice and Equality. When does the Taoiseach expect to publish the terms of reference for the commission of investigation into those issues identified in the report by Seán Guerin SC? When will the Government bring forward the new legislation to strengthen the operation of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission? When will the Oireachtas have sight of the Government's proposal for an independent Garda authority which is to be up and running by the end of the year? When can we expect details on the process of recruitment by open competition for the new Garda Commissioner.

I also have a question ar ábhar eile. When does the Taoiseach expect the White Paper on energy will be published, following the publication on Monday of the energy policy Green Paper? The Taoiseach might have noted that the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, has raised the possibility of the State building a fourth generation nuclear reactor. Is the Government seriously proposing to build a nuclear reactor?

Biomass.

No.

Go raibh maith agat.

This is a Green Paper which allows everybody to have their say. As Deputy Adams is aware, there is a legal ban-----

The Taoiseach is saying "No" first.

-----in Ireland on building nuclear reactors.

The Taoiseach is saying "No" in advance of everybody having their say.

He is giving the answer first.

That sums up how the Taoiseach does things.

Biomass Pat. He is full of it.

While the Deputy might like me to say otherwise, the Minister has no intention-----

It is a second slap for the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, in two days.

Biomass Pat.

He should get back into his burrow.

-----of lifting the ban on the building of nuclear reactors in this country.

He is full of it.

As part of the Green Paper on energy process-----

I think it is because of the-----

-----everybody and anybody are perfectly entitled to have their say.

But the Taoiseach has made up his mind on it.

All of the observations that are made will be considered.

So the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, is going off the rails.

Nuclear Pat.

It is election talk.

The Deputy can examine the Green Paper to understand it.

Press the nuclear button.

I hope we can come back to the House before the summer recess with proposals on the structure of an independent statutory Garda authority. It is a tight timeline to get it done before the end of the year but I hope we will have the observations and reflections of Members of the House before the House rises for the summer recess.

There will be a two hour debate tomorrow on the Guerin report, which will continue the week after next. Deputy Adams mentioned a number of other issues.

I inquired about new legislation to strengthen the operation of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission, the Government's proposals for an independent Garda authority and details on the process of recruitment. I asked the Taoiseach about the terms of reference for the commission and he talked about the structure of it. They are two different issues.

The process is beginning in respect of the recruitment of the new Garda Commissioner. It will be a national and international open competition. How best to structure that will be devised by the Minister for Justice and Equality and her officials.

The intention is that we hope to have the process concluded and the a Commissioner appointed in or around the same time as the independent statutory authority is put in place. We must consider as part of the Government decision yesterday the amendments that are necessary to strengthen the Office of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission. One particular section needs to be looked at and it is possible there will be amendments to other sections. We will consider that. The process is starting for all three. I have given indicative timelines to which I hope we can stick.

What about the terms of reference of the commission of investigation?

We need to consider what the commission of investigation needs to look at arising from the Guerin report. I am also discussing with the Minister for Justice and Equality how one deals with all the cases of a historical nature that are coming to light, some going back many years, that are outside the remit of the Guerin report. I am also considering whether we should wait and reflect upon the report by Mr. Justice Cooke in respect of GSOC and have both reports considered together. I do not wish to define terms of reference for the Guerin report until I see what the Minister for Justice and Equality recommends arising from the Guerin report itself, issues of a historical nature that are emerging from many sources and the conclusions of the Cooke report.

I wish to correct the record in terms of something the Taoiseach said. The Secretary General will not come before the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality tomorrow. It will be next week at the very earliest.

My apologies.

I also wish to refer to the commentary of the Taoiseach on the letter from the Secretary General. Quite farcically, the Secretary General states he does not wish to impede the work of the Fennelly commission-----

I am sorry to interrupt the Deputy but that is not a matter for the Order of Business.

The Taoiseach should hear the information because it is clear he is not getting the information.

Deputy Mac Lochlainn can talk to him privately.

There will be a commission of investigation into the Guerin report, yet the Secretary General will come before us to discuss the matter. He will also discuss the handling of correspondence which is being dealt with by the Fennelly commission but he does not wish to talk about the reason the Garda Commissioner resigned or was sacked.

It is outrageous and he needs to-----

Does the Deputy have another question?

Will the Taoiseach address it to make sure that he deals with all the issues?

He cannot do so on the Order of Business.

In terms of the issue of the Department of Justice and Equality, the panel of experts will examine the running of the Department and the reason the new Minister will not express confidence in the Secretary General until the review is completed. There is correspondence from Ian Bailey and his solicitors to the Taoiseach and it has cost the taxpayers €40 million to €50 million over 18 years.

The Deputy knows this is not in order on the Order of Business.

The Department of Justice and Equality has serious questions-----

I ask the Deputy to please resume his seat.

-----on how it handled this affair over the past 18 years. Will the Taoiseach deal with this correspondence?

Will the Deputy please resume his seat?

A total of €40 million to €50 million has been spent over 18 years, managed by the Department of Justice and Equality which is still defending a civil case in the courts with regard to Ian Bailey and Jules Thomas. Will the Taoiseach deal with this issue as part of the review?

No, he will not deal with it on the Order of Business. It is as simple as that.

Will the Taoiseach correspond with me?

We have to have some order in the House-----

Will the Taoiseach come back to me on these points?

-----and when I stand up I expect every Deputy to adhere to the Chair.

With regard to the Green Paper, White Paper or black paper which the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, cannot see through with regard to the EirGrid Bill, a total of 35,000 people made submissions on their views. Why must the Minister have a commission and a White or Green Paper to cod the people further? I want an answer on this. It is a pity the Minister has gone.

The EirGrid Bill will be next year.

It is next year every time I ask. It was next year last year.

Next year is still next year.

The fat lady has not sung but the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, has left the Chamber.

That is a disgraceful comment.

The Bill will be next year in 2015.

Sorry?

2015 is next year.

I know that, but it was 2013 first then 2014 and now 2015. Will the Government be around to do it?

The Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, is very offended.

He is.

Will Deputy Mattie McGrath be around?

Please God.

It was a disgraceful comment.

The Taoiseach is a múinteoir scoile himself, and throughout the country national schools are being persecuted and frightened out of existence.

The Deputy will have me worn out before he is finished. I have to do this everyday.

Gabh mo leithscéal.

I have to do this everyday. The Deputy will have me worn out.

I am asking about two points. One is the EirGrid Bill and the other is about the education (admission to school) Bill. It is promised legislation. The Ceann Comhairle has given me a Topical Issues matter to raise and I am very thankful for it so I will mind myself today. When will the education (admission to school) Bill be implemented?

This session.

It is all a big session as far as the Taoiseach is concerned but nothing is happening.

Is it that the Deputy means it is a big session?

That is what the Taoiseach thinks.

An insurance Bill is proposed to provide for the continuing regulation and supervision of the insurance industry and reinsurance having regard to past experience in this area. Is it intended to bring the Bill to the House, has it been discussed in Cabinet and when is it likely to come before the House? In respect of the Seanad electoral (university members) (amendment) Bill, which is important legislation to extend and implement the 1979 amendment to the Constitution on the Seanad university franchise, what is the present location of this particular legislation? When is it likely to be finalised?

The insurance Bill has not come before the Government and therefore the heads have not been discussed. It is not due for this year. It will probably be early next year. The Seanad Bill was referred to the Seanad for its assessment and I have not heard back from it yet.

When does the Taoiseach expects to have the Cooke report? Once having received it, when does he propose to publish it?

Now that we have a new Minister for Justice and Equality I hope she and the Government will be more sympathetic and decent in respect of the case of the survivors of the Bethany Home. I have raised this issue many times on the floor of the Dáil. I hope today the Taoiseach will commit on his behalf and on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, to revisit this case and do the decent thing for the survivors.

I have no contact with Mr. Justice Cooke and I have no idea when he will submit the report.

Is it not imminent?

It is imminent according to the Minister, Deputy Quinn.

I have had no contact with Mr. Justice Cooke and I cannot confirm it. A timeline was set for it but it is entirely a matter for Mr. Justice Cooke.

So it is not imminent.

I hear reports that it is imminent-----

The Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, said it would be next week.

-----but I have no contact myself with him and therefore I cannot confirm it.

It was imminent last Thursday.

I cannot confirm the date in answer to the Deputy's question. I will pass on her comments in respect of the Bethany Home to the Minister for Justice and Equality. The matter was not approved on a number of occasions in recent years.

I am aware of that.

I do not accept the Deputy's comment that the Government is neither sympathetic nor decent in respect of the work it does here. As pointed out with regard to the Magdalen laundries, Priory Hall and many other sensitive serious issues the Government has been sympathetic and decent.

The Government has been utterly indecent to these survivors. It has been callous and heartless and the Taoiseach clearly intends to continue in this vein. It is a disgrace.

My question is on the Wind Turbine Regulation Bill 2014. The Government promised to bring forward guidelines on wind farms. With regard to setback distances the Minister is committed to including 500 meters regardless of the height-----

We cannot deal with this aspect of the Bill.

Will the Taoiseach address this and ensure the setback distance is pro rata to the height?

The Deputy can raise this through a parliamentary question.

Will the Taoiseach give a commitment this morning on the Bill? I know it cannot be discussed on Committee Stage prior to the local elections, but will the Taoiseach give a commitment to allow Sinn Féin's Wind Turbine Regulation Bill 2014 to be discussed on Committee Stage after the elections so his party people and our party people, who are being asked about it on the doorstops throughout the midlands, can give some clarity to the people affected? We need this commitment this morning to allow the Bill go to Committee Stage.

I cannot give the Deputy this commitment. All of these guidelines are for public consultation and complete review so I cannot give the commitment. I am sorry.

How long is the consultation? The Government is dragging it out until after the local elections.

I wish to raise an issue with regard to the programme for Government relating to a commitment that hospitals would be paid according to their care path of delivery and would have an incentivised scheme to ensure resources follow the patient. With respect to the health reform Bill, will the Taoiseach comment on its publication date in light of the publication yesterday afternoon of a high-level review of maternity services in the HSE north west-----

We had this on Question Time.

-----which earmarked the closure of the number of maternity units particularly with respect to Portiuncula and Ballinasloe, which is provided for in the seventh scenario?

No, Deputy, please resume your seat.

Ceann Comhairle-----

No, you will not deal with individual cases.

The Ceann Comhairle is to facilitate debate and not to censor it. This is a critical-----

We had an hour and a quarter for Question Time this morning on health issues, including this matter, with the Minister present.

I have submitted this as a Topical Issues matter and the Ceann Comhairle has consistently rejected it.

The Deputy is not doing himself any favours by being smart.

Nor yourself because you are supposed to facilitate debate, not censor it.

Deputy, resume your seat. I take great exception to your comments. You will be treated like every other Deputy in the House. You have no special place.

I would be delighted if I was.

It is a complex Bill. It is listed for later this session but I cannot confirm it will actually make it through. I do not accept the Deputy's comments about the closure of maternity services. There was a meeting in Portiuncula-----

It is not in order in the Order of Business.

There was a meeting on Friday last and it was made clear there are no planned closures. I have been listening to rumours and allegations which are entirely baseless for the past two days.

They are not rumours. They are in the report.

Nonsense.

Look at "Professor Nonsense".

Deputy Keaveney was at Question Time this morning and this matter was dealt with.

Rubbish.

You are "Professor Rubbish".

Electioneering.

Will the Taoiseach formally correct the record in respect of what he said earlier about Mr. Brian Purcell and clarify that there is no firm commitment for a specific date for him to come before the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality?

That is not in order on the Order of Business and the Deputy knows this.

I want to also ask the Taoiseach if he will correct the record on the issue on which Mr. Purcell was asked to come before the committee, which concerns the resignation of the former Garda Commissioner.

I ask the Deputy to please resume her seat. This is not in order.

The Taoiseach knows Mr. Purcell cannot divulge a private conversation between them on the night in question.

Will the Deputy please resume her seat?

I am asking the Taoiseach if he will agree to lift-----

I am asking the Deputy to resume her seat.

-----the confidentiality in respect of that conversation so people can find out-----

Deputy Shortall.

-----from Mr. Purcell why it was-----

Switch off that microphone please.

-----that the Taoiseach sent him out-----

Deputy Shortall, resume your seat.

-----to Mr. Callinan. Will the Taoiseach lift that requirement for confidentiality-----

I will ask Deputy Shortall to leave the House if she is not careful.

-----or will he attend the committee and explain what went on that night?

Deputy Shortall, please leave the House.

I do not want any comments on this. The Deputies who consistently ignore the Chair show grave disrespect to the House. It is not me personally; it is the House and the rest of the Members.

The Taoiseach should correct the record.

Moreover, when you are asked to resume your seat, please do so-----

The Taoiseach misled the House.

-----and raise issues in accordance with the rules of the House.

The Taoiseach should correct the record. He is the person who can provide-----

Thank you, Deputy. That concludes the Order of Business for today. The Dáil will suspend for one hour.

-----information on what happened that night.

Hear, hear.

Will the Taoiseach lift the confidentiality requirement on Mr. Purcell?

As the Deputy knows well, this is the subject of a commission of investigation by a Supreme Court judge.

My apologies, there also is the First Stage of a Private Members' Bill. I call on Deputy Adams-----

The Deputy should be ashamed of herself.

The Taoiseach should be honest and should not put loyalty before the truth.

Deputy Shortall, would you please stay quiet and behave yourself?

The Taoiseach is goading her.

And you too, please.

With respect, the Taoiseach said she should be ashamed of herself. The Taoiseach should explain why she should be ashamed of herself.

There is a commission of investigation.

The Deputy does not need to come in to defend anybody. She is well able to do it herself. I call Deputy Adams.

Why should Deputy Shortall be ashamed of saying what she said?

I call Deputy Adams.

Why should she be ashamed to say what she did?

The reason is because she was out of order.

I was talking to the Taoiseach.

Deputy Martin, please stay quiet. I call Deputy Adams.