Over the past seven years, the people have struggled in many ways to come through the recession. Throughout Ireland, people struggle with mortgages. They are raising families in difficult situations. I saw a report which states grocery prices have gone up approximately 70%. People are struggling to send their kids to college. We have property tax. Elderly people will get 45 minutes of home help to get out of bed. County councils cannot take on new employees even though the number of employees they have has been decimated. We all know the state of the health service. Each one of us in this Dáil gets calls every day about the distress families are suffering. The Tánaiste told us earlier to look at where we have come from. She is right. Look at it. The kick in the teeth to the people is to be found in the reports in the media telling us that top politicians and former taoisigh will now get a couple of grand extra. They will end up with €136,000 to look out the window at home and smile at Ireland. Former Ministers will be looked after. Just imagine it. The rise they will get in their pensions equates to extra home care for three people. Some of them, including the Tánaiste, have said they will not accept it, which I acknowledge. However, that is not the way to go forward. Some of these people will give the State the two fingers. They will run for the hills with the money in their pockets. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, has been asked about this situation. What did he do? He put his hands in the air and asked what could he do.

When crises hit this country, the Government was prepared to bring in emergency legislation. We are legislators. We are here to solve the problems of the country. We cannot have a family home being repossessed. We cannot have banks closing in on families throughout the country and at the same time give €2,000 to the fat cats. I am not long a Member of the Dáil but I will ask the Tánaiste one thing. Will she answer me straight? I do not need an epitaph. I want straight answers. Does she agree with those increases in pensions? Will her Government legislate to stop this immediately? When will she bring in that legislation?

The answer is never.

I thank the Deputy. First of all, in relation to the issue of local authorities hiring staff-----

We do not want to know about them.

Answer the question.

Answer the question.

-----I am sure the Deputy is aware that his own county council in Galway, along with all the other county councils, have been sanctioned to hire more than 300 additional staff.

We have not got one in Tipperary. Not one.

Deputy McGrath needs to speak to his county manager.

It is up to the county manager to apply. Some 300 additional staff have been sanctioned to provide for the planning, building and development of new homes and houses in all counties throughout Ireland-----

Answer the question.

-----as part of the Government's €3.5 billion investment in housing in this country. In case Deputy Fitzmaurice is not aware of the fact-----

Answer the question.

-----I know from visiting Galway that Galway County Council has taken on more staff. Those extra staff are in addition to the 1,800 or so additional teachers and the 600 additional special needs assistants who have been taken on throughout the country. The Deputy's suggestion that a recovery dividend is not being paid in terms of additional staff is wrong. While it is a few counties away from him, Deputy Fitzmaurice will probably know that Templemore, which was shuttered by the previous Government, is now home at any one time to 500 or 600 gardaí in training.

What has this got to do with the question he asked about the pensions? This is unreal. A specific question was asked but we cannot get an answer.

I have had enough. I am going to leave.

Peter has had enough.

Peter could not take it any more. Even Peter walked out.

On the Lansdowne Road agreement and the emergency financial measures in the FEMPI legislation, the advice to the Minister, Deputy Howlin, has been that the FEMPI measures should be unwound as the Lansdowne Road deal comes to an end.

The Government can cut the lone parent's payment but it cannot cut payments to the fat cats.

Take it easy, Mattie.

I will not take it easy. It is a fact.

As the House will be aware, a new deal is currently being negotiated and finalised with the trade unions. People on pensions in excess of €100,000 have rightly taken a pension deduction of 20% in the special levy on high level pensions. There is a significant deduction in existence at the moment, in respect of FEMPI, imposed on people who have very high pensions at more than €100,000.

Deputy Fitzmaurice referenced my personal view. If the Taoiseach of this country earns less than €200,000 and therefore might be in line for a pension of somewhat less than half of that, and the Taoiseach now earns significantly less than €200,000, I do not see why anyone in this country-----

One Minister living in America for the past five years is still getting his pension. He is not even living in Ireland.

-----who was paid out of public funds should earn a pension in excess of €100,000.

What is the Tánaiste going to do about it?

However, the principal people in receipt of these sums are medical consultants who are very highly paid following a move initiated by the previous Government.

It has been endorsed by this Government.

I have said it publicly and I will say it again. We have been legally advised that now that the financial emergency is over, thankfully, the FEMPI legislation should be unwound in line with the restoration of, in particular, low-paid public servants' pay in respect of the cuts they took in terms of both actual cuts to their wages and additional levies in relation to pensions.

Can we see that advice?

The same applied to low-earning retired civil servants on pensions. I have made a suggestion-----

Cut the lone parent's payment.

-----to the people involved who are fortunate enough. Some of these former Ministers and taoisigh earn more than serving Ministers and taoisigh or almost as much nowadays.

Which is why they do not need it.

As I said, one is living in America. He is not even living in Ireland. Martin Cullen is living in America. He has been living there five years.

I think they should have the decency to offer-----

Legislate.

-----to refund that pension increase to the State.

They should not get it.

They should do it on a voluntary basis and they should acknowledge the strong level of pension they receive.

They can claim it after a year or two. It will come back to them.

I do not see why they would need it. It would be an honourable gesture-----

Like burning the bondholders.

-----to the State they served.

The Tánaiste is asking them to give it back but will not take it off them.

The State now contributes significantly to their pensions and comfort in retirement. They should refrain from accepting it.

I am not long in the Dáil but after listening to that waffle a person would lose the will to be here. The same ding-dong goes on every day. I look around me and no one answers a question straight. The fact is those politicians who are gone have given the two fingers to the State. We need to do something as legislators to stop what is going on. Go out on the ground and listen to the people. This is a problem with many politicians. The Government should listen to its backbenchers. In fairness to the backbenchers of all parties and none, behind the scenes they will say what is going on is a disgrace.

Why does the Tánaiste not listen to the people on the ground who have made the sacrifices in the past six or seven years? Why does she not show an example as a leader or a deputy leader of a country, show the people and give them the hope they need? They need to know there is someone at the top who will show the light, show the way and not keep with the same ding-dong with the fat cats of this country.

The Tánaiste should go around Ireland to the small and medium-sized businesses. She has talked about where we are now. We are €208 billion in debt. We are not out of the woods. The Tánaiste should go into every small town in this country. Small and medium-sized businesses are struggling and on their knees. They are keeping the door open and the light lit but I can tell the Tánaiste they will not have a holiday.

These people who have absconded and gone include ex-taoisigh and ex-ministers. Some of them are living outside the State. They do not give a damn. They are not worried about small business. The small businesses are what will bring Ireland back and make an Ireland of the future, not these people who have headed for the hills.

I do not accept that we could ask someone if they might give it back to us. That day is gone. As legislators, we need to sit down. Whatever the way, legally it can be done.

Of course it can.

If we say it cannot be done, then we are giving up as a country.

I am appealing to the Tánaiste. Altogether, I think there would be support right around the House. We could work together and make sure this will not go on. There are senior civil servants who have retired on massive pensions as well. This cannot go on, when we see people struggling on €20,000, €30,000 and €40,000. They cannot send their children to college. They are the people who have pulled Ireland out of the coals, out of the fire. I appeal to the Tánaiste to reconsider what she is doing. We would work with the Government. I believe everyone in the House is disgusted with what has been said. I put it to the Tánaiste that legislation has to come in: if we need to come in during the holidays, let us do it. Let us go forward, show example and let the people see that there is some decency in politicians before they give up on us once and for all.

When this Government came into office the first thing we did was abolish a series of privileges which applied to politicians, in particular, to officeholders who served in government. We abolished all of the transition payments relating to retiring Ministers. Not only that, but Ministers and others who would serve henceforth received and took significant cuts in their salaries and in their future pension entitlements. In fact, for ordinary Deputies the future pension entitlements of those who came to serve recently apply from the age of 65 years. By the way, at the time, I did not see the Independent Members offering the €41,000 allowance that each of them gets on a tax-free basis.

Yes we did.

It is €40,000 a year.

I did not see them offering that.

The Government parties get it as well.

I did not see them offering that.

They get €200,000 over five years.

The Government parties get millions.

They get €200,000 over five years.

Government Members get €25 million.

Excuse me, can we have order, please?

They get it free into their pockets.

They get €200,000.

Can we have order, please?

Will they give it back? Will they give back the €40,000?

I will swap Deputy Kehoe my €40,000 for his €25 million.

I have called the Tánaiste, please.

Perhaps Deputy Fitzmaurice might lead by example. Perhaps he does not take that particular payment.

Perhaps Deputy Fitzmaurice would lead or, in terms of his fellow Independent Deputies, address-----

Sorry. This is Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice's question. Can we have order, please? Deputy Donnelly, please.

What is the Tánaiste going to do about it? The former Minister is off living in America. What is the Tánaiste going to do about the former Minister living in America who brought this country to its knees? He is laughing at this State in America.

Deputy, please.

I have asked the Tánaiste to reply.

Deputy Halligan, this is Deputy Fitzmaurice's question, please. Deputy Fitzmaurice asked the question.

Deputy Fitzmaurice-----

He is on a golf course in America with a huge pension after wrecking this country. The pension is being sent out to America to him.

Deputy Halligan, I do not know what you are talking about. I am going to have to suspend the House if we cannot have Deputy Fitzmaurice's question addressed.

Deputy Fitzmaurice said that he would support moves that "can legally be done" - that was the phrase he used. In that, he has used a very wise phrase, one with which I concur. This is because it is the same constitutional advice as has been given to the Government.

Can we see it?

Can we see the advice?

It is related to the financial emergency measures. The financial emergency period, thankfully, is over and is beginning to recede.

We are €208 billion in debt.

That is because of the sacrifices the people in Ireland have made. The legal advice to us, whether or not Deputies like it, is relevant. Deputy Fitzmaurice talked about what can be legally done. I accept the spirit in which he is making his proposal. However, he asked that we could see what can legally be done.

Tax them.

I will certainly take it up again with the Attorney General. However, a range of legal advice suggests that a pension right is a particular right people have. It was reduced in the emergency for people on over €100,000 by 20% and upwards. It was reduced even more by this Government when we came into office for current and future officeholders and Members. That was agreed and it was legally okay.

Why not leave it reduced?

This is Leaders' Questions, please.

At the moment according to the legal advice that is available to us, the recourse is that the people involved, whether they are in America sunning themselves, as Deputy Halligan has suggested-----

They are in America. He is in America.

Then, it behoves them and perhaps their former party members in the House - I am referring to the former party of government - to advise them that in the public interest they should actually not take what would be, in effect, some reduction in the level of reduction they are currently taking.

That concludes Leaders' Questions. I hope Deputy Fitzmaurice heard all that was said there; I could not.