This morning we heard the announcement by Irish Water of its new seven-year plan, a key element of which is the decision to lay off between 1,200 and 1,500 people. This comes after the same entity created 700 additional jobs over and above those that were already in local authorities delivering water services and paid bonuses in respect of those 700 positions. It was also confirmed that there will be a flat-rate charge for the next seven years despite the fact the Government decided with Irish Water to spend €550 million on water meters that will, in essence, be redundant for the next seven years and perhaps beyond. It is a colossal waste of public funding. Irish Water has failed the EUROSTAT test when the rationale for setting it up in the first place was to have it off balance sheet. It no longer can be and there are very good reasons for that. Up to half the people have not paid their water charges and the conservation grant will be given to those who do not pay their water charges. By the way, the Government is even screwing up the giving out of the grant, which it cannot do properly. There are thousands of people ringing up and the form is impossible to decipher and follow through.

It is people's general taxation which has paid for this. From motor tax alone, €265 million has gone for the establishment and operational costs of Irish Water while next year it will be €316 million. If one takes the full total that has been spent, we are worse off by €800 million. Up to €800 million has been spent on this entity and not an extra cent has been spent on water infrastructure. Less has been spent over the past three years per annum on water infrastructure than was allocated in the previous three years.

A question please.

Those are the realities.

The Government is getting flushed out of it.

The fundamental question is why the Government set this up in the first instance at all. It has not achieved anything it was intended to achieve. Will the Taoiseach outline to me in terms of the cost of laying off the 1,200 to 1,500 people how and when that will take place? Will he set out the status of the flat-rate charge post 2022? Will the conservation grant continue to be paid to those who do not pay their bills? Does the Taoiseach accept that the water meters represent a colossal waste of public money given that they will not be used for the next seven years of the plan or even beyond that?

Deputy Martin is a complete fraud on this matter.

Hear, hear.

He is utterly fraudulent.

The Government messed it up. The Taoiseach rewarded the man who messed it up and sent him to Europe.

Settle down, please.

Fianna Fáil did very well out of it - 19%.

The reason is that Deputy Martin's party always supported the concept of contributions for services, including water. Fianna Fáil went to the extent of having a €400 charge in its proposition until it saw the people to Deputy Martin's right shifting ground, after which that party said it did not want water charges, at least not for the present. Now, Fianna Fáil wants to restore the situation that applied before with 31 local authorities.

I welcome the Irish Water business plan. It sets out a €5.5 billion investment plan to 2021 so that all of the challenges and difficulties that were apparent for many years can be dealt with. The plan includes, for example, the elimination of all boil-water notices, making safe the supplies that are currently at risk for 940,000 people, ending the practice from 2015 of continuing to pump raw sewage into our rivers, harbours and seas at 44 locations throughout the country, there for all to see, a reduction in the amount of leaks from 49% to under 38%, and an increase in the fresh water capacity for Dublin city in particular where it is currently balanced on a knife edge. The business plan published this morning sets out the structure by which this will be achieved, including making operational savings of €1.1 billion over the period.

Irish Water has achieved reductions in numbers because of natural wastage and people retiring. One of the reasons was to reduce the waste or duplication of having 34 separate water authorities which were not of a similar high standard serving the people of the country. I understand that the business plan targets a 7% year-on-year efficiency in the inherited cost base culminating in €1.1 billion in savings, which is the equivalent of a 40% reduction by 2021. Irish Water has set out that it sees a sizeable reduction of up to 1,200 with a primary focus on the operational local authority staff engaged under service level agreements. Irish Water points out that it may be necessary to have a voluntary scheme in the course of those years.

There is no "may be" about it.

The numbers involved in operations within local authorities have reduced by 300 since 1 January last year.

What about the meters?

Irish Water estimates that a further 1,200 reduction will need to be managed through natural attrition, redeployment and a voluntary redundancy scheme. It set that out very clearly.

The Taoiseach used the word "fraud". The only thing that has been fraudulent is the premise upon which Irish Water was established. If the Taoiseach will not take my word for it, take EUROSTAT's word.

What about cryptosporidium?

Deputy, please.

EUROSTAT recognised that this was fraud. It stated that this was no commercial entity. It stated: "Considerable government control over Irish Water, in particular over board appointments and operations, including broad pricing parameters such as price caps for non-domestic users."

Failed the NCT.

It struck Irish Water down, stating:

The fact that Irish Water merely re-organises previously non-market activity carried out by local government, with local government assets being transferred to Irish Water and a large majority of Irish Water staff remaining local government employees.

Significant and continuous government funding and support to Irish Water, mainly in the form of operational grants and capital funding.

The lack of economically significant prices, concerning in particular the capping of fees for households...

For two years, the Taoiseach carried on the fraud in the Chamber of pretending that Irish Water would be off the balance sheet and have a dramatically expanded infrastructural expenditure.

Does Deputy Martin remember the supply in Galway?

The bottom line is that, by any objective yard stick, the Government has sunk €550 million in water meters that will never be used for the purpose for which they were originally contracted, that is, a payment system based on usage.

How does Deputy Martin-----

Of course they will be used.

Will the Taoiseach acknowledge this?

A Cheann Comhairle-----

A question, please.

It is a colossal waste of money.

Big Phil got away.

Deputy Martin is a right congressman. He should be quiet.

The Government employed an additional 700 staff on top of the number working in local authorities-----

I am sorry, but this is Leaders' Questions.

-----merely, in the words of EUROSTAT, to reorganise things. The Taoiseach stated that a cert would be achieved, but it could have been achieved without the establishment of Irish Water.

What about the previous supply in Galway?

The work on boil water notices was already on the way from local authorities. That is a terrible fantasy being presented by the Government.

Could the Deputy put his question, please?

Fantasy economics.

Some €800 million has been invested in a monster-----

Back to school.

-----that has not added any value for the taxpayer.

Big Phil got away.

The bottom line is that, in the next seven years and as even Irish Water and the Taoiseach admit-----

I am sorry, but the Deputy has gone way over time. Will he put his question?

-----the taxpayer, be it through motor tax or income tax, will pay for Irish Water's operational and capital costs.

Taxpayers already are paying.

There was no rationale for its establishment.

There was no water supply either.

It has been blown out of the water by EUROSTAT. It has been a costly and colossal waste of public money for which the Taoiseach stands indicted.

For 20 years Deputy Martin did nothing about it.

It all allowed for Denis O'Brien-----

Irish Water has failed the NCT.

The Government got it wrong. It should put up its hands.

Will Deputies settle down, please?

I am reminded of John McEnroe's comment: "You cannot be serious."

You cannot be serious. The Government has been flushed out.

Deputy Martin makes his contribution.

Some €500 million. The Government got it wrong.

It is a waste of millions of euro.

The Taoiseach is more interested in tennis than in politics.

He comes in here as a leader of his party and he says, "I propose that there be a €400 flat charge for water without any alleviation for anybody-----

Ball boy.

Yes, he is.

-----no discrimination at all", and then he shifts entirely and says-----

Denis's ball boy.

-----"Well, actually, a bit like St. Augustine, we do not want water charges yet but..." Now Deputy Martin wants to go back to having 34 local authorities. So much for the construction-----

That is what we have now.

That is what is there.

Deputies, please.

That is what EUROSTAT has stated that we have.

So much for the constructive suggestions that Deputy Martin says he put forward in the interests of the country.

Some €800 million later and that is what we have.

After €800 million, we have 34 local authorities.

I am sorry, but Deputy Martin had his say. Will he please allow for the reply?

That is the reality.

The Taoiseach does not believe EUROSTAT.

I listened to somebody who knows more about the mechanics of Irish Water than either of the two of us on the radio the other day. The water meters that have been installed have identified thousands of leaks of water between-----

None of that from them.

-----the boundary and the household. They have not all been fixed, but the equivalent given by the engineering section-----

There was a cheaper way of doing this.

The Government did not have to spend €550 million for that.

Deputy Ellis could blow them up.

-----was the usage of water by one of our entire counties. Now, Deputy Martin wants to go back to a situation where one has-----

There was a cheaper way of doing it-----

-----34 local authorities dealing with this.

That has nothing to do with it.

-----but the Government was trying to float Denis O'Brien.

That is what Deputy Martin wants to go back to. His financial projections are €2.8 billion out and he will not tell anybody what he is proposing-----

The Taoiseach will not tell me today about his proposal for 1,200 people.

-----as to how he is going to reconstruct that. The savings-----

He has not told me.

Please, we are over time.

Fear of the future.

Please, Deputy Adams is waiting in the wings.

I always like to speak without interruption.

That is a sobering thought.

At least he is not on a wing and a prayer.

I am sorry, but we are nearly four minutes over time.

The operational savings of having a single entity here are €1.1 billion in cost reductions.

No one believes that.

The domestic contribution out to 2021 is of the order of €1.3 billion and the capital savings, because Irish water is making these arrangements as a single utility, are about €500 million.

What about its debts?

That is €2.8 billion. That is the value that one is going to have in savings from setting up a single entity to provide high-standard water and wastewater treatment plants for the foreseeable future.

Change the record.

I disagree with Deputy Martin fundamentally on this. He used to be on the line of a single entity and then he changed for some inexplicable reason.

The Taoiseach has done a great deal of changing as well.

The first ballcock is gone.

Maybe it is because of the people on his right who want everything for nothing-----

Has Mattie sorted out the septic tanks?

-----and put forward the view that one does not have to pay for anything in this world.

I call Deputy Adams.

I-----

I do not believe that your name is "Adams".

What did you do with the fivers, Mattie?

Nine hundred residents of Dublin's Longboat Quay have been instructed to cough up millions of euro for repairs to their homes because they were built without adequate fire safety measures. They have been told that, unless they do so by 1 November, they face eviction. Is the Taoiseach also aware that families that were allocated a block of 62 apartments in Prospect Hill on Dublin's Finglas Road have been told by Dublin City Council that there are health and safety issues with those apartments? The block is one of several on a larger site of more than 500 occupied apartments that may have the same problem. Is the Taoiseach aware of the Riverwalk Court complex in Ratoath, County Meath's version of Longboat Quay? Clearly, these are not isolated cases. Properties bought at considerable expense have been verified in report after report as being substandard and dangerous. How does the Taoiseach intend to reassure residents that unscrupulous property developers and not unfortunate residents will be held responsible for unsafe building work, given the fact that NAMA, local councils and the Government have been aware for years of these health and safety issues? Will the Taoiseach spell out the steps he has taken to deal with this scandalous situation? As to my primary question, will the Taoiseach indicate how many residential developments have been built without adequate safety measures?

No, I cannot give the Deputy that answer, but what I am convinced of is that there are other Longboat Quay situations out there and other Priory Hall situations out there. And all of that has brought absolute wreckage to the careers and the ambitions and the lives of so many people in our country. And it all happened because of a rush to greed, a rush to build indiscriminately without following the conditions and the regulations that were laid down as to proper building standards. I do not know, Deputy Adams, how many other cases around the country were built to an inferior standard. I do not know if there are other apartment blocks out there where traps exist or where fire hazards exist.

Is the Taoiseach going to do something to find out?

Unfortunately, they are not coming to light long until after those who provided them have absconded or are not in the business. The Deputy's deputy leader wanted to make a telephone call to a developer yesterday as if this could sort it all out.

Did the Taoiseach ring him?

I made the point to Deputy McDonald that the Longboat Quay apartments were a combination of a number of entities, and the Minister, Deputy Kelly, met with personnel about this yesterday.

This is an example of the worst kind of situation in our country, where people who went off legitimately and got their money to buy their homes or apartments or houses found afterwards that, for reasons beyond their control, these were not what they thought they were. At the end of the day, somebody probably expects the taxpayer to fork out for all of these things. The situation is that responsibility is vested, and was vested, in the regulations and the conditions that were granted when planning permission was granted in the first place.

I do not know the answer to Deputy Adams's question, but I will take the places that he has mentioned and ask the Minister, Deputy Kelly, and the authorities to carry out investigations on those places, but I am convinced that there are probably others in other locations around the country where, unfortunately, the same situation actually applies.

The Taoiseach could give him a ring to save himself a lot of hassle.

That is how it was done in the old days.

I am concerned by the Taoiseach's answer. He stated that he was aware that there were many other Longboat Quay, Prospect Hill and Riverwalk Court developments, but that he could not tell how many. How long has he been aware of this? How long has he known that citizens are living in unsafe accommodation?

As the Taoiseach has stated, this clearly is the unacceptable face of the Celtic tiger and of Fianna Fáil light-touch regulation. However, it is not enough for a Taoiseach to engage only in the blame game. Neither Members nor the people who live in these developments need to be told what is the problem. The Taoiseach must tell Members the solution. The Taoiseach may recall that the Mahon report had a key recommendation on the appointment of an independent planning regulator but the Government has not acted on this. Will the Taoiseach support the Sinn Féin Bill published today by an Teachta Brian Stanley to establish an independent planning regulator? In addition, will the Taoiseach tell Members why the Government has not introduced legislation to ensure that surveyors, architects, builders and planners are accountable? On what basis, moral or otherwise, does the Taoiseach expect residents to pick up the tab for what he has described as the unscrupulous behaviour of those developers and others who built these unsafe developments? Does the Taoiseach agree with the Minister, Deputy Kelly, that property tax proceeds should be used? Finally, can he confirm whether there are criminal investigations under way into these matters?

Thank you.

Moreover, will the Government introduce the necessary legislation before it goes to ensure developers and not residents are left to foot the Bill?

As the late Dr. Paisley used to say, "Don't you put words in my mouth".

Exactly.

I did not state I was aware of the number of locations around the country where inferior building took place. I said I was convinced there are others out there.

On what basis?

The Taoiseach has gone from McEnroe to Paisley.

Deputy Adams has made available here some information about places he has been informed are of an inferior nature.

It is the Taoiseach's lack of awareness that is of concern.

I will pass them on to the Minister and the authorities to ensure they are investigated and rightly so. I am convinced, Deputy Adams, that in the so-called Celtic tiger years that applied under the party opposite-----

Solutions Taoiseach.

Yes. Start again next week.

Yes, that the position was that many buildings and apartment blocks were built very quickly. God knows how many others are out there that are not up to standard.

As the Taoiseach, you should know.

There is much Deputy Adams should know about himself.

There is a lot you know you do not let on, I can tell you.

The Taoiseach to reply please. Thank you. This is Leaders' Questions.

Of course, I did see the "Spotlight" programme about buildings in Northern Ireland but the Deputy knows nothing about that either.

Is that going to be the Taoiseach's answer for everything?

No Deputy Tóibín, that is not my answer.

Is that the Taoiseach's default for every problem? Will that be his default answer to everything?

The spotlight is on the Taoiseach. No answers.

Sorry, would Members please-----

As the Deputy is aware, the planning and development (No. 2) Bill will deal with elements of the regulatory authority that is to be set up. The Minister, Deputy Kelly, has made some serious changes in the regulations in so far as the building standards are concerned.

Will the Government support Sinn Féin's Bill?

The Deputy knows as well as I do that while meetings were supposed to be held on site on a regular basis on all of these developments, in many cases they never happened and one was left in a situation of considerable chance as to whether shortcuts were taken. The result is that in the city centre, for the Longboat Quay apartments, there is substandard and inferior quality-----

It never happened, but they sent them out to a 90 year woman about a satellite dish.

Please, we are over time.

-----and confusion about all of that. In addition, people had been living in these apartments in cases where they obviously were not safe from the perspective of fire safety certification and all the rest. The Minister has made quite a number of changes to the regulations that apply here and the planning and development (No. 2) Bill, which the Minister of State, Deputy Coffey, and the Minister, Deputy Kelly, will bring through the Dáil will deal with the regulatory situation here.

Thank you.

However, to be honest with Deputy Adams, I believe it will be necessary to wait for some time until other cases are sold or transferred and inspections are carried out which find they are not what they are supposed to be, are of inferior quality, are substandard and are not that which was planned and for which permission was given. The Minister will move to ensure these kinds of situations do not apply in the future. However, one cannot do this unless one has supervision and a mandatory requirement to comply with conditions of planning that are set out in the first place, adhering to the regulations that are in the planning and development (No. 2) Bill and so on.

If they needed any more proof of the need for a commission of inquiry into the workings of NAMA, Members got it at the meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts last Thursday. Deputy McDonald challenged NAMA about redactions in its responses to questions from the Northern Ireland inquiry and in particular, details of Frank Cushnahan's conflict of interest declaration to the agency. NAMA's representatives told the Deputy they could not give them to her and were not even obliged to so do. Answers will not be forthcoming without a commission of inquiry. There have been a great number of questions but there have been absolutely no answers and I still am not convinced the Government wants the answers. Members still do not know why NAMA allowed the Project Eagle process to continue despite the involvement of Tughans and Brown Rudnick, which had been involved in the Pimco deal. Members still do not understand how NAMA could possibly tolerate the idea of selling Project Arrow to Cerberus, which is under criminal investigation in America and Britain. How in God's name can this be the case-----

Hear, hear.

-----apart from the fact it makes no sense to sell Project Arrow in any event, given that 50% of it is residential and the country faces a housing crisis? It has a par value of more than €6 billion and yet NAMA looks to sell it for less than €1 billion. This simply does not make sense and the process should be stopped. If Cerberus is found guilty, what happens with Project Eagle? Will it be null and void? Will the entire process be undone? When Pimco's potential criminal violation was found, did NAMA seek US legal advice? When NAMA found out, did it approach the Garda under section 19 of the Criminal Justice Act?

A question please, thank you.

If it did, when did NAMA so do? Did Lazard express views regarding the continued involvement of Brown Rudnick and Tughans or was it satisfied in this regard? Does the Taoiseach have a problem with the fact that Lazard, which ran the process for NAMA, also was involved with the bank that gave the money to Cerberus to buy it? Does the Taoiseach have a problem with that?

No problems.

I already have answered questions on this matter in the House, as has the Minister for Finance. The Deputy is aware two investigations are under way in this regard. He is aware of the interest from the United States. The Deputy has made or has been given information that he has brought to the House and he has gone to the Garda, on which I commend him. However, Deputy Wallace also is aware NAMA is responsible, through the Committee of Public Accounts to this House and the Oireachtas. I understand the Deputy has declined to give witness evidence to the aforementioned committee but he should do so. He has information or has been given information: somebody is supplying him with information, which is fair enough. He has used some of that in giving it to the authorities. However, he is making highly specific allegations here and I suggest he should accept an invitation from the Committee of Public Accounts to appear as a witness and give his evidence to the body through which NAMA is accountable to the Oireachtas and have justified the claims he has made or otherwise. I cannot speculate on a court hearing or hearings that are taking place in regard to Cerberus or any other company as to what the outcome of that might be.

The Taoiseach can ask about it however.

Will you stay quiet?

Relax Peter.

The Taoiseach can ask about it.

Will you please stay quiet?

The question Deputy Wallace is asking the Taoiseach to answer-----

The position is-----

The Taoiseach should answer Deputy Mathews.

Sorry Deputy, will you stay quiet? It is not your question.

I suggest to Deputy Wallace that while we can continue this kind of dialogue here on a weekly basis, he has been given or supplied with information and evidence-----

Which the Deputy has given to the Taoiseach.

I suggest he take that information himself-----

He has given it to the Taoiseach.

It is not your question. Will you stay quiet?

-----as a witness before the Committee of Public Accounts-----

The Taoiseach is the top man and-----

Would you allow the Deputy get an answer to his question please?

-----where NAMA can reply to the Deputy in the committee.

It is staring the Taoiseach in the face.

Deputy Wallace can deal with the Chairman, Deputy McGuinness, and ascertain whether his allegations or evidence stands up.

That is not the point.

That is what Deputy Wallace should do-----

What did the Taoiseach do?

-----and the Deputy might well serve the national interest in a major way because whoever is giving him his piece of information, he should then test them as to whether they stand up.

Is the Taoiseach going to allow Project Arrow?

Deputy Wallace.

I have been to the Garda and to the National Crime Agency. I have come into the House and put stuff before the Taoiseach who is ignoring it. What is he going to do about it? He is the leader of this country and he is ignoring serious questions and serious problems I am raising. Why does the Taoiseach not wish to do something about it?

Will the Deputy put his supplementary question? Thank you.

At this stage, there is a strong belief that Cerberus was earmarked to get this project hail, rain or snow; that the whole thing was fixed up in order that it would get it. NAMA is involved in that and the agency cannot distance itself. The sales process is not much better then the purchase process.

Sorry, please put your question, thank you.

Is the Taoiseach satisfied that there was no collaboration with Cerberus by a NAMA insider based in Dublin because I am not?

Committee of Public Accounts.

If the Taoiseach wants the answer, he should not bother his barney asking NAMA because it is not going to give it to him, no more than it is giving answers to the PAC. The PAC members admitted last week that they do not have the authority or power to hold NAMA to account. A commission of inquiry is the only way that the Taoiseach will get the answers we need. The people have not been served well by NAMA. It stinks to high heaven and the Taoiseach is involved in the cover-up because he refused to do anything about it.

Will you resume your seat please, Deputy?

He does not want to know.

You cannot make allegations like that in the Chamber. Please resume your seat. You are over time. I call the Taoiseach.

Deputy Wallace was elected to the House in the same way as everybody else and he is entitled to be here, having been elected by the people of Wexford.

Thank you very much, Taoiseach. We are all very reassured by that.

You have had your little say. Will you hold on a second until we hear the Taoiseach?

I assume Deputy Wallace is using the right he has here of full privilege with responsibility.

The Taoiseach is using his not to do anything.

Solemnly.

Would you please stay quiet?

Thank you, Deputy Mathews. Deputy Wallace makes the point that Cerberus were earmarked for this project and that this was all fixed up. He makes the point that somebody based here in Dublin was got at. These are pretty serious allegations. He makes the point that I, as Taoiseach, am involved in some kind of cover-up and that this is a situation that can only be resolved by a commission of investigation. He has been to the Garda and to other authorities. I suggest to Deputy Wallace that he elaborate on the information he has given here, and the allegations he makes, in front of the Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts.

Proper order.

He should go as a witness and see-----

Does the Taoiseach not want an inquiry?

I explained to the Deputies yesterday that one is dealing with two different jurisdictions here. There are two investigations going on in a different jurisdiction and NAMA have 300 pages of detailed responses on its website. Deputy Wallace says that it is all a cover-up. He says it is fixed up, that people were got at. He needs to elaborate and give the evidence for that kind of information.

As the Taoiseach said himself, they are a secret society.

Fine. I said there was a secret society.

That is a dark pool.

I suggest to Deputy Wallace again that he has a duty and a responsibility-----

He has a duty - a commission of investigation.

I am sorry, Deputy, but would you stay quiet for a moment?

He has gone to the authorities and I am suggesting that NAMA are responsible, through the Committee of Public Accounts, to the Oireachtas. Deputy Wallace is a Member of the Oireachtas.

They are responsible to the Minister for Finance as well, and the Taoiseach knows that.

If he has information and evidence about Cerberus being earmarked, about this being fixed up, about people being based in Dublin doing-----

An outrageous allegation.

Deputy Wallace needs to give that evidence to the Committee of Public Accounts.