If they needed any more proof of the need for a commission of inquiry into the workings of NAMA, Members got it at the meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts last Thursday. Deputy McDonald challenged NAMA about redactions in its responses to questions from the Northern Ireland inquiry and in particular, details of Frank Cushnahan's conflict of interest declaration to the agency. NAMA's representatives told the Deputy they could not give them to her and were not even obliged to so do. Answers will not be forthcoming without a commission of inquiry. There have been a great number of questions but there have been absolutely no answers and I still am not convinced the Government wants the answers. Members still do not know why NAMA allowed the Project Eagle process to continue despite the involvement of Tughans and Brown Rudnick, which had been involved in the Pimco deal. Members still do not understand how NAMA could possibly tolerate the idea of selling Project Arrow to Cerberus, which is under criminal investigation in America and Britain. How in God's name can this be the case-----

Hear, hear.

-----apart from the fact it makes no sense to sell Project Arrow in any event, given that 50% of it is residential and the country faces a housing crisis? It has a par value of more than €6 billion and yet NAMA looks to sell it for less than €1 billion. This simply does not make sense and the process should be stopped. If Cerberus is found guilty, what happens with Project Eagle? Will it be null and void? Will the entire process be undone? When Pimco's potential criminal violation was found, did NAMA seek US legal advice? When NAMA found out, did it approach the Garda under section 19 of the Criminal Justice Act?

A question please, thank you.

If it did, when did NAMA so do? Did Lazard express views regarding the continued involvement of Brown Rudnick and Tughans or was it satisfied in this regard? Does the Taoiseach have a problem with the fact that Lazard, which ran the process for NAMA, also was involved with the bank that gave the money to Cerberus to buy it? Does the Taoiseach have a problem with that?

No problems.

I already have answered questions on this matter in the House, as has the Minister for Finance. The Deputy is aware two investigations are under way in this regard. He is aware of the interest from the United States. The Deputy has made or has been given information that he has brought to the House and he has gone to the Garda, on which I commend him. However, Deputy Wallace also is aware NAMA is responsible, through the Committee of Public Accounts to this House and the Oireachtas. I understand the Deputy has declined to give witness evidence to the aforementioned committee but he should do so. He has information or has been given information: somebody is supplying him with information, which is fair enough. He has used some of that in giving it to the authorities. However, he is making highly specific allegations here and I suggest he should accept an invitation from the Committee of Public Accounts to appear as a witness and give his evidence to the body through which NAMA is accountable to the Oireachtas and have justified the claims he has made or otherwise. I cannot speculate on a court hearing or hearings that are taking place in regard to Cerberus or any other company as to what the outcome of that might be.

The Taoiseach can ask about it however.

Will you stay quiet?

Relax Peter.

The Taoiseach can ask about it.

Will you please stay quiet?

The question Deputy Wallace is asking the Taoiseach to answer-----

The position is-----

The Taoiseach should answer Deputy Mathews.

Sorry Deputy, will you stay quiet? It is not your question.

I suggest to Deputy Wallace that while we can continue this kind of dialogue here on a weekly basis, he has been given or supplied with information and evidence-----

Which the Deputy has given to the Taoiseach.

I suggest he take that information himself-----

He has given it to the Taoiseach.

It is not your question. Will you stay quiet?

-----as a witness before the Committee of Public Accounts-----

The Taoiseach is the top man and-----

Would you allow the Deputy get an answer to his question please?

-----where NAMA can reply to the Deputy in the committee.

It is staring the Taoiseach in the face.

Deputy Wallace can deal with the Chairman, Deputy McGuinness, and ascertain whether his allegations or evidence stands up.

That is not the point.

That is what Deputy Wallace should do-----

What did the Taoiseach do?

-----and the Deputy might well serve the national interest in a major way because whoever is giving him his piece of information, he should then test them as to whether they stand up.

Is the Taoiseach going to allow Project Arrow?

Deputy Wallace.

I have been to the Garda and to the National Crime Agency. I have come into the House and put stuff before the Taoiseach who is ignoring it. What is he going to do about it? He is the leader of this country and he is ignoring serious questions and serious problems I am raising. Why does the Taoiseach not wish to do something about it?

Will the Deputy put his supplementary question? Thank you.

At this stage, there is a strong belief that Cerberus was earmarked to get this project hail, rain or snow; that the whole thing was fixed up in order that it would get it. NAMA is involved in that and the agency cannot distance itself. The sales process is not much better then the purchase process.

Sorry, please put your question, thank you.

Is the Taoiseach satisfied that there was no collaboration with Cerberus by a NAMA insider based in Dublin because I am not?

Committee of Public Accounts.

If the Taoiseach wants the answer, he should not bother his barney asking NAMA because it is not going to give it to him, no more than it is giving answers to the PAC. The PAC members admitted last week that they do not have the authority or power to hold NAMA to account. A commission of inquiry is the only way that the Taoiseach will get the answers we need. The people have not been served well by NAMA. It stinks to high heaven and the Taoiseach is involved in the cover-up because he refused to do anything about it.

Will you resume your seat please, Deputy?

He does not want to know.

You cannot make allegations like that in the Chamber. Please resume your seat. You are over time. I call the Taoiseach.

Deputy Wallace was elected to the House in the same way as everybody else and he is entitled to be here, having been elected by the people of Wexford.

Thank you very much, Taoiseach. We are all very reassured by that.

You have had your little say. Will you hold on a second until we hear the Taoiseach?

I assume Deputy Wallace is using the right he has here of full privilege with responsibility.

The Taoiseach is using his not to do anything.

Solemnly.

Would you please stay quiet?

Thank you, Deputy Mathews. Deputy Wallace makes the point that Cerberus were earmarked for this project and that this was all fixed up. He makes the point that somebody based here in Dublin was got at. These are pretty serious allegations. He makes the point that I, as Taoiseach, am involved in some kind of cover-up and that this is a situation that can only be resolved by a commission of investigation. He has been to the Garda and to other authorities. I suggest to Deputy Wallace that he elaborate on the information he has given here, and the allegations he makes, in front of the Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts.

Proper order.

He should go as a witness and see-----

Does the Taoiseach not want an inquiry?

I explained to the Deputies yesterday that one is dealing with two different jurisdictions here. There are two investigations going on in a different jurisdiction and NAMA have 300 pages of detailed responses on its website. Deputy Wallace says that it is all a cover-up. He says it is fixed up, that people were got at. He needs to elaborate and give the evidence for that kind of information.

As the Taoiseach said himself, they are a secret society.

Fine. I said there was a secret society.

That is a dark pool.

I suggest to Deputy Wallace again that he has a duty and a responsibility-----

He has a duty - a commission of investigation.

I am sorry, Deputy, but would you stay quiet for a moment?

He has gone to the authorities and I am suggesting that NAMA are responsible, through the Committee of Public Accounts, to the Oireachtas. Deputy Wallace is a Member of the Oireachtas.

They are responsible to the Minister for Finance as well, and the Taoiseach knows that.

If he has information and evidence about Cerberus being earmarked, about this being fixed up, about people being based in Dublin doing-----

An outrageous allegation.

Deputy Wallace needs to give that evidence to the Committee of Public Accounts.