Real plans but not real houses.

In respect of An Garda Síochána, in recent weeks the public has been informed of the rampant financial mismanagement in Templemore, the potential bugging of the political opponent of a Minister, highly unusual leasing arrangements between the OPW and a Garda-owned golf club, and the widespread distribution of a video of a young woman in a distressed state by a serving garda, apparently for amusement. These are only a fraction of the scandals that have enveloped the force under the current Government, Commissioner and Minister. The scale of the maladministration, incompetence and potential corruption that have come to light is staggering. It is obvious why public confidence in the force is in tatters but it is shocking that those in authority seem completely oblivious to this. Instead, the Taoiseach and his Government colleagues attack anyone who attempts to bring these failures to light.

Regardless of whether the Commissioner was informed of the issues in Templemore in a two-hour briefing or a quick chat over tea, her responsibility under the Garda Síochána Act is abundantly clear. It beggars belief to claim that informing the Minister of these issues was a matter of judgment. The Commissioner's failure to notify the Minister for 15 months was a complete dereliction of statutory responsibility to keep the Minister fully informed of any significant developments that might reasonably be expected to adversely affect public confidence in the Garda Síochána, as stated in the Act. The fact that the Tánaiste appears to believe this is a political attack on her and that raising these issues is to increase the pressure on her as Minister, as she said, is the height of arrogance. It speaks to a Minister well aware that the removal of the previous Garda Commissioner set in motion the chain of events that led to the end of her predecessor's time in ministerial office. It is looking very much as if history is going to repeat itself.

This, however, is not about one justice Minister or one Commissioner; it is about systemic dysfunctionality deeply rooted in one of the most vital organs of the State. No one here is looking for a head on a plate for the sake of it; what we want is real reform. It needs to happen now, however, and not after a commission of inquiry or another review.

There was a time, at the time of the setting up of the Charleton inquiry, when it would have been sufficient for the Commissioner to step aside without prejudice. That time is gone, however. What is desperately needed now is a change in culture that can come about only if the Commissioner and the senior management team are changed. That is what is required. Can the Taoiseach explain why he will not join all Members on this side of the House who have come to the conclusion that we cannot continue under the present regime with a Commissioner and a senior management team who do not understand the principles involved in accountability and being answerable to the public?

The Deputy raised questions about potential corruption, bugging and accountability, and she raised the most distressing issue of all, which was the video of a young woman who is no longer with us. We share the grief of her family over the tragedy. That matter is being investigated as a matter of urgency by the Garda. I understand from reports that the footage was taken on a mobile phone.

The Deputy made her point about that. She also made a point about bugging, an issue of particular importance and on which I have read the newspaper reports. As the Deputy will be well aware, there is a designated judge who deals with the question of listening to particular individuals. The Deputy does not comment on any of these cases because they are small in number. I have the last report from 10 November last year by Mr. Justice Paul McDermott in front of me. He states:

2. On 27th October, 2016 I attended at the Office of the Department of Justice and Equality ... and met with officials who made available to me documents and records relating to the operation of the Acts, as requested. I examined the files and records furnished and spoke to the officials responsible for the operation of the Acts and liaison with other authorities in respect of same. All documents requested by me were furnished and all questions posed by me in relation to the files and records produced were answered to my satisfaction.

3. On 27th October, 2016 I attended at the headquarters of An Garda Síochána ... I met with officers and personnel responsible for the operation of the above Acts. I examined computer records and hard copy tiles relating to the operation of the above Acts which were made available for my inspection and all documents and records which I requested were furnished and examined. All questions posed by me in relation to the operation of the Acts and the documents and records produced were answered to my satisfaction.

He concludes: "I am satisfied having examined the records and documents produced to me and from the information conveyed to me at these meetings that the relevant State authorities are in compliance with the provisions of the above Acts as of the date of this report".

What the Deputy referred to in respect of allegations of bugging goes back quite a number of years. I do not have the date, but obviously there was a situation where there were different Ministers for Justice for quite a long time. In respect of bugging, this is a very serious matter and the Minister for Justice and Equality of the day is not in a position to order that an individual be eavesdropped upon using telecommunications without having an official of the Department verify in the first instance that it would comply with the Act and that it would be overseen by the High Court judge with responsibility for this matter. There is a lot of stuff in the ether about which I would like to know the facts. As I understand it, the case the Deputy mentioned went before the courts not for bugging or eavesdropping but for personal injuries. It was a different matter and this was an element of the case. Be that as it may, it is a very serious allegation. I am giving the Deputy the result of the judge's most recent report on compliance with the Act in so far as the Department of Justice and Equality and An Garda Síochána are concerned. All of the evidence, files and computers were made available and all of the questions were answered to the satisfaction of the judge.

The Commissioner of An Garda Síochána is the Accounting Officer for the Garda Vote. She is responsible to the Committee of Public Accounts for dealing with the Vote. The matter is being investigated by the committee and it is not for me or the Deputy to interfere with its work. In law, the Commissioner is responsible to the Committee of Public Accounts as Accounting Officer for the Garda Vote and we should let the committee do its work.

We are way over time.

On the Deputy's comment on dysfunctionality, this morning the Government approved the commission on the future of policing in Ireland with detailed terms of reference and a list of people who have great experience in the law, policing and other elements of society. The commission's report is not being asked for in 15 months. There will be a rolling report whereby the commission can make recommendations, on which the Government will act, on a regular basis. In other words, as recommendations come through in respect of policing, they can be dealt with by the Government, instead of waiting a full 15 or 18 months for a final report. The terms of reference are good, detailed and exact and the commission will give a different impetus to the way the culture in the Garda evolves.

The independent Policing Authority recently made an appointment as a new assistant commissioner of a policeman whom I happen to know from his work in the north inner city. He is the kind of person the Deputy would be proud to have appointed by an independent body. He has done his work in difficult circumstances in the past few years.

The Deputy shakes her head. Maybe she does not agree. The fact of the matter is that no senior appointment to the gardaí in future will be made by anything to do with any Commissioner or anything to do with any Government, but by an independent Policing Authority, which is the way that it should be.

That simply is not good enough. The Taoiseach is hiding behind the Committee of Public Accounts. No official investigation is going on within the Committee of Public Accounts. It is looking at this issue; there is no official investigation. It does not prevent the Taoiseach from acting and doing what he should be doing if he takes his political responsibility seriously. Rather than going off on a tangent, the Taoiseach might respond to the very fundamental issues that I have raised about political responsibility on the Taoiseach's part and on the part of the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality.

We cannot wait for the results of yet another investigation, another review or another commission of inquiry while the Garda force continues to implode before our very eyes. It is clear the upper echelons of the gardaí are too embedded in the current unhealthy and unaccountable culture to do their job properly. The only way we will address the core failings of the gardaí is to appoint a new team. We cannot continue with the regime where it seems the objective is to obfuscate and defend the indefensible, while discipline in the gardaí is neglected, where morale continues to fall and where public confidence in the rule of law is at an all time low. We must have action from either the Taoiseach or the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality. They need to do what needs to be done and to stop obfuscating.

The Deputy makes a comment and does not say what she wants. She said before that-----

It is very clear that I want the Taoiseach to remove the Commissioner and the senior management.

-----she was not looking for anybody's head and talked about dysfunctionality. Then she said to me to do what I am supposed to do.

Yes.

The fact of the matter is that the Tánaiste accepts political responsibility for her actions here.

It does not address the issue.

All the recommendations of the interim report on Templemore have been implemented by this Commissioner. This is the Commissioner who has referred this to the Committee of Public Accounts to whom she is responsible as Accounting Officer.

She did not.

She is accountable as Accounting Officer for the Vote to An Garda Síochána. While the Deputy says it is not being investigated-----

The Taoiseach is hiding behind the Committee of Public Accounts again.

The Committee of Public Accounts considered this the other day and whether it should expedite its analysis of all the reports it has received.

Deputy Kenny is the Taoiseach.

The changes that have been made are fundamental and it takes some time for a change of culture to evolve in an organisation like An Garda Síochána and Deputy Shortall will find that, over a period of time, as the independent Policing Authority makes its senior appointments, both civilian and from or to the force-----

Public hearings.

-----there will be an increase in the public's confidence and trust because of the way the nature and culture of the gardaí will change. Of course there have been difficulties - so many - and not just now. The Deputy talked about bugging earlier and about a time back in the early 2000s. I do not have evidence of that. I am giving the Deputy the changed-----

It happened under the Taoiseach's watch.

-----nature of what has happened here from the report I received from Mr. Justice Paul Anthony McDermott about bugging-----

Independent appointments and a Policing Authority.

-----following comments the Deputy made earlier.

That concludes Leaders' Questions, which, incidentally, has overrun by 16 minutes today.