Yesterday I listened to a segment on "The Pat Kenny Show" on Dublin traffic. Last night, "Prime Time" covered the same issue. Increasingly, the lack of capacity in public transport is raised in the context of what is becoming a very significant congestion problem. In the past week alone, a number of buses have been diverted to try to alleviate the traffic chaos that is fast becoming the hallmark of College Green. This was exacerbated by the introduction of the Luas cross city.

We are facing a significant problem in 2021 owing to fines for not adhering to our climate commitments. One of the best things we can do is invest in public transport to meet those climate commitments and avoid the fines. Not only will investment in public transport offset the fines but it will also deliver a public transport system fit for a modern Ireland. In the early 1990s, we received a significant investment from the European Union because we made a case that our traffic problems in Dublin were inhibiting our economic growth nationally. It is ironic that, a couple of decades later, the same case can be and is being made by the business community and others.

There is understandable anger over the disgraceful treatment of disabled people on public transport. I refer in particular to the rail network. That a disabled person would have to give notice of four hours just to take a DART into town, for example, is not acceptable. It is hardly reassuring to any rail users to note that a reply I received from Irish Rail last week states it has not received any funding for placing orders with manufacturers and, therefore, there will not be any deliveries of new trains in 2018, 2019 or 2020. The reply also informed me that the company has not purchased any new trains or carriages in the past five years. This means no additional capacity will have been added to the rail stock in eight years.

What of the game changer of DART underground? Not only would that significantly alleviate Dublin traffic but it would have far-reaching benefits for the surrounding counties and make our capital city function properly. Anybody who commutes on Irish Rail will tell the Taoiseach about commuter trains at peak times. One is doing well if one gets on and if one does, one will be squashed like a sardine. Is it any wonder people are opting for the comfort of their cars?

We know the lead-in time from order to delivery of new trains is three to four years so decisions will have an impact if they are made now. The Taoiseach spoke recently about the need to spend now to save later. Does that mean he will accelerate the funding to Irish Rail for the purchase of new trains? How can disabled people expect any improvement in how they are treated if Irish Rail is not in a position to purchase new accessible carriages for the foreseeable future? In terms of fleet strategy, will the Government take a very cautious approach or will it future-proof purchases to provide for the huge expansion that is expected in the commuter-belt areas in terms of housing? Will the Taoiseach commit to accelerating the DART underground project which has been proposed as far back as the mid-1990s?

It is the case that we have seen a return to a level of congestion and traffic gridlock in cities that we have not seen for quite some time. A lot of that is related to the fact that the economy has improved and people are working again. Passenger numbers on Irish Rail, Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann are increasing. On the Maynooth line, with which Deputy Catherine Murphy and I are familiar, it has not quite got back to where it was at peak but I have no doubt it will get there in the coming months and years.

The reality is that during the lost decade, those ten years I spoke about, we just did not have the money that we needed to invest in public transport. We lost ten years, which we could have used to improve the public transport system. We were able to do some important things in the greater Dublin area, for example, the Phoenix Park tunnel is open and passengers in Deputy Murphy's constituency use that service on many occasions. The Luas cross city is now a reality providing quality public transport to a lot of people and linking up Luas lines and commuter lines. We brought in real time passenger information, RTPI, so that people know when the bus is coming. Some Members may have watched "Prime Time" last night. I am delighted that it was accurate and that the signs on the Luas and Dublin Bus were within one or two minutes in terms of accuracy. Integrated ticketing was also introduced in the form of the Leap card. Even at a time when we had no money to invest in infrastructure we were able to do some very valuable things.

We are now in a different place as a country and I hope that in the next couple of weeks we will set out a very ambitious ten-year investment plan in infrastructure. Transport must be a big part of that. We will be guided in many ways by the National Transport Authority's greater Dublin area plan which runs up to 2035. Projects in the mix include BusConnects, additional carriages for Irish Rail, the metro project and new Luas lines. Deputy Catherine Murphy will know as well as I do that once one takes the decision to make the investments the lead-in time is very long before they become a reality. I remember the day I signed the order to connect the Luas lines and when my officials told me it would not be open until 2017 I was distraught because I could be anywhere in 2017. As it happens I am here, but public transport is something I really believe in and something in which we will invest very heavily into the future.

It is the case that Irish Rail has no new carriages on order but it is funded to refurbish 30 or 40 carriages and once they are refurbished they will be brought into use in the Limerick and mid-west area and that will have a knock-on effect in terms of allowing for greater capacity in Dublin and on some of our existing lines. While Irish Rail does not have the carriages to run additional peak services, it will be able to run additional off-peak services.

I acknowledge much of what has been done, some of which was proposed in the early 1990s, including some of the projects the Taoiseach identified. The best way to inhibit a recovery is not to invest in it. There is no doubt that huge amounts of land are being zoned on the periphery of Dublin that is only going to add to the congestion unless the Government in parallel provides and plans for the growth, including public transport.

I was told at a Committee of Public Accounts meeting that climate fines are likely to be up to €600 million per year from 2021. Where is the spend now and save later approach if no order has been made for the purchase of new carriages and trains when it is perfectly obvious that there is a problem with capacity, in particular at peak times? If public transport is to function it must have capacity.

The Taoiseach did not reply to my question on the DART underground. Is that on or off the table at this stage? At what point will the Government invest in the carriages? When will the order be made? Is the Minister active on the issue? I did not hear him say very much about it.

Where is the Minister?

The ten-year national infrastructure investment plan will be published as soon as it is agreed by the Government. I hope that will be in the next few weeks. The Deputy will then see what can be funded and what cannot be funded in the greater Dublin area and in the rest of the country in the decade ahead. All the projects she mentioned are in the mix.

Deputy Catherine Murphy is correct to say that we need to spend now to save later but to spend now one needs the money and let us not forget that until last year we were running a budget deficit. We were spending more than we were taking in in taxes and other revenues and we were increasing our borrowing every year. In order to spend and invest one has to have the money so the first thing we had to do was to get the economy back on track and on a sustainable footing and now we are in a position in the years ahead, provided we continue to steward the economy well, to invest in infrastructure in a way that we have not done for a very long time.

To pick up on another point the Deputy made on areas on the outskirts of cities that are zoned for development, she is correct that we need to ensure that transport is in place for those areas but perhaps what is more important is that we need to make sure that we put new housing in places that are already served by infrastructure and that means densification, going higher and having higher density, in particular in city cores not just in Dublin but in Limerick, Waterford, Cork, Galway and other places too. If people live near to where they work, in particular if they live within walking distance of where they work, that cuts out the need for all that expensive infrastructure and there are no emissions at all.