Public pensions after misconduct
Deputy Shortall asked whether pension and lump-sum benefits for senior public servants should depend on satisfactory performance, especially in light of the Charleton tribunal. The Taoiseach said pensions are property rights and any change would need careful consideration of due process and public consent.
The Taoiseach referred to the fact that he is taking legal advice from the Attorney General in respect of the two senior gardaí at the centre of the Charleton tribunal. In a general sense, would he accept there is an issue in the State where senior public servants whose performance has been less than satisfactory and, in some cases, grossly unsatisfactory, sail off into the sunset with large lump sums and generous public service pensions? Would the Taoiseach commit to exploring the possibility of ensuring that such pension benefits would be contingent on their satisfactory performance while they are in the job? This issue arises from time to time. It seems we are incapable of dealing with it and we need to introduce primary legislation to change the terms of employment for senior public servants.
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This matter may come under the Order of Business or the programme for Government, if it is appropriate.
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I do not believe it is in the programme for Government, but I understand where Deputy Shortall is coming from. Many members of the public, and I too, get extremely annoyed seeing people who have been involved in wrongdoing sailing off into the sunset with very generous pensions and very generous lump sums. The question is whether there is something we can do about it. We have to consider two things. Firstly, pensions in Ireland are property rights. If a person pays into it-----
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Would the Taoiseach accept-----
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For everybody who pays into their pension, it then becomes an entitlement. It is not a gift, it is something into which people have paid. We have to consider pension rights and property rights and whether or not the public would want to give us the power to take away somebody's pension rights.
The second issue that would need to be considered is due process. While there are people who have sailed off into the sunset with very generous pensions and lump sums, there are also those people who have been very unfairly hounded out. We would need to make sure there is due process in that regard, and consequences for those people who have hounded them out.